Why isn't Carnera in the IBHOF?

How about ?

Vitali
Dokes
Thomas
Witherspoon
Berbick
Coetzee
Tubbs
Weaver

 

I'm not sure what the definition of super heayweight is for this purpose but for say guys 6'3" or so and up and 220 plus here is my take:

Over Carnera

Foreman
Bowe
Lewis
Wlad
Vitali
Witherspoon
Page
Dokes
Thomas
Tate
Douglas ( if youre going best for best )
Tucker


Same Class Carnera

Valuev (Primo like outboxes him)
Bruno (Tough call. Bruno may blast him out or Carnera outlasts him)
Smith (Primo likely decisions him but could get caught like Bruno did)
Willard (Inconclusive to me , just not enough footage)
McCall (Primo may decision him but McCall may waker up and catch him)

 

Vitali is equal to Wlad. I won't separate him from his brother. On my list I rate The kilt boys joint #11 of all time.

Dokes and Tubbs I don't rate at all as champions. I rate them below someone like zora Foley at their best and as Fair fringe level contenders for the most part. Neither were ever regarded as the worlds best heavyweight and nor were they ever good enough to have been thought as such.

Witherspoon and Berbick were solid outstanding contenders. Weaver and Coetzee almost as good. But their not champions either. Just beter than Tubbs and Dokes which is no better than saying Tim Witherspoon was better than David Bey.

 

I think Witherpoon,Weaver ,Coetzee all ko Carnera and I would add Tate.Tubbs and Dokes box his ears off!

 

Neither of those guys, good fighters that they were, never could have been regarded as the best in the world. Not even in Carneras day.

Tate just never got going. In under 22 fights he was an ex belt holder and never surfaced after that. In another era Tate is like a flash in the pan contender who vanished before fighting the best.

Same really with Dokes and Tubbs. When did they fight the worlds best let alone beat them?

Coetzee is like a Lee Savold kind of contender. Floated about the ratings off and on. Found his level, beat one decent contender (Dokes) never fought the worlds best.

Witherspoon is better than Carnera based on potential but nobody won anything with potential. Instead Witherspoon was a guy who never convincingly beat Renaldo Snipes. Who did spoon beat regarded as the worlds best? Page was not "worlds best". Tubbs certainly was not "worlds best". Tim did take Holmes close but no cigar. It's like Arturo Godoy taking Louis close. It's not making Arturo a guy who should be rated over a real champion who did establish that status -even for a moment.

Witherspoon has more in common with Jack Sharkey. Tim got knocked out by a guy he beat convincingly on points.

 

So how do they rate against Primo ? I see Witherspoon and Page beating him cleanly but I can see Carnera decisioning a Berbick or a Bonecrusher Smith. Berbick didn't hit that hard and Smith was slow with a low punch output ..

 

I'm not saying they were the world's best at any particular time as a qualification. They we're all recognized as title holders and I am matching them up against Carnera. I could easily find another twenty contenders I'd pick over him too ..

 

They each rate below all of the guys who were at one time rated the best of their times. Primo, was once regarded the best in his time. He beat the unanimously regarded best heavyweight. I listed all the champions I considered best of their own times. The 1980s lost generation Belt holders were not good enough to be the best of their own times. That's not to say they each don't represent a good test for those who were regarded the best in their time. why make them something in another time that they could not achieve in actual time?

 

Yes but it has to stack up. If you want, for example, to put John Tate against Carnera then Tate has to have something more than just Gerrie Coetzee going for him. He needs a run of consistent comparable wins in order to make that comparison. It won't do to say one of these guys looked good enough against another guy who was also not regarded the best of that time. There has to be proven levels of wins. That's why a starting point must be to consider if these guys were good enough to be the best of their own time.

 

Look I don't have the excusive on how to judge someone .. we all make our own .. What I will give Primo far more than most fighters and as much as any is heart and courage. That plus his winning the title which I happen to believe was legit make him justifiable for the HOF in my opinion. We agree on that.