Why isn't John L Sullivan ranked above Ali?

Actually, I do rank him above Ali. He made greater distance between himself and his best contender than did any other champion. GOAT.

 

To be fair, we don’t have vision of Blackburn himself and he might’ve refined and customised some of his old moves for Louis at any rate.

There’s a particular study of Louis on YouTube (I know, there are heaps).

Anyway, among other nuances highlighted they focused on Joe’s use of his rear right hand to preemptively reach out and nullify his opponent’s lead left hand, knocking it down or pushing it away - very effective and very similar to what we can see Jack Johnson do to his opposition.

I don’t know if that move necessarily washes as a legal these days but it was very cool nonetheless.

There’s also the oft pointed out left hook that Louis specifically used to knock away Braddock’s left guard so as to clear a path for Joe’s bone crunching KO right.

Old school doesn’t necessarily mean bad school - I’ve not seen any other fighter on film employ such a sweet move - but it may not have been so rare in Blackburn’s day and simply a later, rare gem passed onto Louis. .

 

Tell me about it.

My man Ingemar, as fine a technician as ever did grace the squared circle. The true GOAT.

People shouldn’t be jealous of us Swedes.

Being beautiful and proficient in all things isn’t our fault.

Instead of being envious, people should revel in and celebrate us.

Just heading out for an invigorating sauna right now……

 

Otto Wallin will avenge them all

 

Haha.

Btw, ever notice how Brian and Bridgette Nielsen have never actually appeared in the same photograph together? Hmmm. Strange.

Perhaps I’m drawing too long a bow…otherwise, amazing what a bit of makeup and lippy can do. I don’t know if I can ever watch another Sly movie again though…..

 

Are they related ?

 

Way to appropriate a Finnish innovation.

 

Not to my knowledge. In Denmark the surname Nielsen is as common as Smith.

Well, that’s how the Finns like to tell it. Lovely neighbours but always borrowing our stuff and then acting like it’s their own.

 

Unlike Sullivan, Ali never fought a 75 round bout either.

 

Ali is way more proven against truly elite boxers of all colors and nationalities. Fighting a bunch of light heavyweights and barroom brawlers isn't that impressive even if some bouts lasted 70+ rounds. If fights last that long it's sometimes because both guys are pacing themselves at a conservative low output snails pace, they're extremely feather fisted, or they're so incredibly sloppy that they can barely land anything significant. Nobody can just stand there trading flush bombs to the jaw for dozens of rounds.

 

So lets say Ali fought in Sullivans era and fought his line up with Sullivans lifestyle and training(minus the color divide in boxing) and Sullivan fought in Ali's era and he fought Ali's lineup but with Ali's food and training. Would their records be the same?

 

I'm talking about an era as a whole, not about one individual that may have been better or worse than his contemporaries.
And Louis had flaws, he was slow and flat footed and he didn't have the best defense either.

 

Never mind dont answer that ridiculous question. I cant imagine Sullivan taking out Ali's lineup.

 

I’m not 100% conversant with LPR.

Based on what I do know - a round lasted until there was a knockdown or takedown.

Sullivan Kilrain last 75 rounds - time duration 2 hours and 18 mins = 138 mins.

Between rounds fighters were allowed 30 secs rest and a further 8 secs to come/walk to scratch/toe the line.

Just allowing 30 secs rest X 74 rounds = about 37 mins. It’s 47 mins if you allow for the extra 8 secs per round.

Being conservative I’ll just subtract 37 mins (rather than 47 mins) from 138 mins leaving 101 mins actual total fight time.

Dividing 101 mins by 74 gives an average of about 1.4 mins per round - just to give an idea and to better appreciate how long the rounds actually were and the relative value of the breaks between rounds.

Of course it would vary from one LPR fight to another but at least as far as the Sullivan v Kilrain fight was concerned, the rest periods were about 1/3 of the average round duration - similar to todays 1 min rest period after each 3 min round.

Just asking the more learned folks - have I approached the calculation in roughly the correct fashion or have I gone off the rails?

 

Just a random musing : I would’ve loved to have met John L - both versions, the younger, heavy drinking braggart and the calmer, teetotaller in his later life. The first time I saw the pic of John L shaking hands with Jack Johnson - it blew me away. John L of all people. Had to look carefully to make sure it wasn’t photo-shopped - LOL.