Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

What do you think about Wilbert " Vampire" Johnson?

 

LOL :bat1


Bon Apetit...

 

good post Mendoza, excellent post infact :good

 

I pretty much agree with your assessment of Dempsey. He's #7 on my list.

 

People seem to now assume that Foreman would destroy any swarmer syle fighter just because he destroyed a shot Frazier. Shot Frazier and prime Dempsey are two different matters. I'd have it 50/50.

 

Enjoyed the sparring actually. Sorry but noway can i see 190 pound swarmer surviving against Foreman. D'Amato made the comment no swarmer in history beats Foreman and i agree. Tyson would be toughest. Foreman's got a superb chin too, stylistically he's a nightmare for Dempsey.

 

Excellent assessment Mendoza. I rank Dempsey somewhere around #10, but the difference between #7 and #10 is small and part of it comes to personal preference, of course.

 

I rated Dempsey high but because of the impressiveway he desposed of Willard not so much of the win, the Firpo win to me impresses because of Jacks brutal 2 fisted power against a guy who was wild and hard to defend against. Dempsey was not active but if you look at the Heavyweights who preceded him, none were, even Johnson did not defend against the Black challegers of his time. Dempsey had the 1st million dollar gate and the Promoter Tex Richard had a lot of control on who Jack fought but I rated Jack high #4 and one of the reasons was that even a faded (legs) Dempsey was impressive with the long count fight over Tunney(great mover, fast hands and feet) and brutal Ko over Sharkey. Dempsey was one of the meanest with killer instinct in boxing had decent speed and power but did not have the example of a Louis (defended vs all) Marciano( 5 times vs #1 contender) Dempsey was the 1st of the great batch but could have defended more times if his focus was on boxing. I have to evalute his place when I revaluate my ratings, he may be lower but then I must do the same with Jeffries,Johnson and Holmes who did not always fight the best of there times.

 

Contrary to some belief Frazier wasn't totally statuesque either. Tyson in his early days had sensational head movement and elusiveness. Marciano was underrated for his awkwardness in defense too. I still like Foreman over them all.

Well Ali only moved for one round, if that. He came up with a surpreme on the spot strategy that centered around his unbelievable ability to take punishment both to head AND body. Why did Ali choose to rope a dope? The two consensus reasons are that he knew he couldn't dance all night vs George and you also hear that he thought Foreman cut off the ring too well. Even at that stage i'm sure Ali could have been more elusive than Dempsey could ever dream of, but knew the strategy would not prevail.

The thing is, swarmers really really don't like to fight backing up. Foreman can and indeed will back them up. His chin, size and strength give him every chance too. Dempsey at 190 is going to be backed up. It won't be good news.

I can't remember anyone as small as Dempsey ever knocking full blown Foreman to the canvas. Many people dropped bigger men than Foreman, but that didn't mean they were going to drop George. George thumped out many bigger men than Dempsey, and men with good chins. I cannot see Dempsey being in the fight long enough to land the punches needed to do the job. I'm also a bit dubious of his power at 190. To be honest i think it might be a tad overrated.

Did Dempsey hit harder than Lyle tho? Lyle was 30 pounds bigger and sure got some nice leverage on his shots. Dempsey is more explosive, but it takes a lot of that to make up for 30 well used pounds. Lyle was a damn hard puncher. Also, this is not the best of Foreman. He is one of these fighters who was never quite the same again once his aura of invincibility was taken, IMO. Even so, that Lyle could drop a guy with a fantastic chin like Foreman speaks volumes for his power.

Now i can agree. I can't see Dempsey getting there, but yes, if he somehow did it would be tougher. Don't forget Jack's size dictates he won't be taking much out of Foreman in the clinches.

I totally disagree. Tell me when is the last time a guy 190 or below walked around routinely knocking out top class heavyweights? Again, i fear Dempsey's power when matched against top class modern heavyweights will be shown to be overrated.

 

Dempseys power is one factor that can be taken for granted.

Whatever you think about the big men he knocked out their ability to absorb punishment would have been comparable to big heavyweights from other eras. Lennox Lewis's bones would shatter just like Jess Willards if Dempsey landed on him.

 

How can you possibly surmize that Dempsey's power would have been too much for Lewis? Throughout his career, Lewis took shots from countless numbers of fighters who could bang. Mason, Klitschko, Golata, Grant, Bruno, Morrison and many others. I'd say his chin and durabity were very well tested to say the least. He was of course stoppe by Rahman and McCall, but one of those fights came when he was 35 years old, while the other was a possible pre-mature stoppage. In both cases McCall and Rahman were well over 200 Lbs, and not 190.