Why Jack Johnson’s Family Should Refuse Any Exoneration

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by scribbs, Jan 2, 2017.


If Jack Johnson gets a pardon should it be accepted by his family?

  1. Yes

    72.7%
  2. No

    27.3%
  3. Don't Know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As to judging how politicians spend their time, I completely agree with McGrain. Things like that are the very basis of whom one votes for, or SHOULD be. You're damn right I'm gonna judge someone I elect as to how they spend their hours representing me. Are you really saying you wouldn't? That's kind of scary.
     
    McGrain likes this.
  2. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I care if there is gross incompetence of mismanaged time.

    But I'm not going to divy up his daily schedule, and tell him when he can take a ****, and when he has to meet with who.

    We elect politicians whom we have faith will carry out whats best for us. We don't elect them to breath over their shoulders.

    Literally nobody has a problem with our senators dedicating a little time to Johnson. Does that give you guys a little clue about how out of touch you are on this?
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, so you keep saying, but it's just something you keep saying.

    It doesn't matter to me what resources were expended (unless it was almost nothing, as I said).

    John McCain and Harry Reid have spent enough time on this matter to get a resolution to Congress. Only a limited number of these pass Congress every year. This one will be among the least important, should it be successful, and I think there are many other matters that could have been addressed with that resource.

    I don't think you are correct in painting this as something done easily, and if it was easy, something more worthwhile but easy should have been done instead OR the beginning of something difficult should have been undertaken.

    12 years spent doing so would have been a better use of that time (yes, i know these men didn't spend the entire twelve years doing just that).

    There is nothing in this opinion that "sucks" or shows "a lack of understanding" or makes me "an armchair politician" (??) or any of the other strange claims you've made about me in this thread.

    I'm not trying to "micromanage the jobs of politicians". That is a ridiculous claim, or you don't understand what micromanage means. Just as i have opinions about immigration, nuclear licencing or military, i have an opinion about this. That I think it spurious doesn't mean i am "micromanaging" John McCain's career. That is absurd.

    My opinion is different than yours and that has upset you. That's fine, that happens, but it doesn't give you a licence to make some of the more bizarre accusations you are making here.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I haven't done any of that. That is all inside your head. And yes, we do elect them to "breath over their shoulders." It's not just absolutely necessary, it's the responsibility of every citizen who lives in a democracy, to one degree or another.
     
  5. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That's not the question at hand. You made a statement that you don't care about how elected officials make up their day. I mean you literally wrote that. Now you're turning that into "McGrain and Sal are out of touch." How are you connecting those dots?

    Personally I don't give two sh/ts about Jack Johnson, and neither do 95% of America or better. That says all anyone needs to say about how far to pursue this issue.
     
  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    You said it's not worth the time and resources to pardon a character like Johnson.

    I think I made a good case as to why pardoning Johnson is important, and how the resource expense on such an initiative would be drastically minimal compared to real issues.

    Just so you know, nobody echoes your sentiments. The people, politicians, nor the media feel what you feel. If you have any pulse on our controversy hungry world of politics, that must tell you something.
     
  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I care. I just have faith that our most senior senators of the US know how to efficiently be productive. And that they have am much better understanding of how to manage their time than we do. So how they manage their time is not a concern of mine.

    It's by far the most logical and reasonable assessment here.

    There is not a single serious complaint of Reid of McCain neglecting the American people because of time management.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I didn't. You need to start getting this right.

    I said that there was no point in pardoning someone who was dead, because people who are alive are more important. This is exactly the position of the US Justice Department:

    “It is the department’s position that the limited resources which are available to process requests for president clemency – now being submitted in record numbers – are best dedicated to requests submitted by persons who can truly benefit from a grant of the request,” pardon attorney Ronald Rodgers wrote to King in December 2009. The pardon attorney, at Justice, assists the president in the exercise of executive clemency.

    This is absolutely my position. People who are alive need justice.

    Furthermore you have made an enormous case about resources, and how I don't understand resources. Well there it is, above, in black and white, from the Justice Department: "limited RESOURCES which are available to process requests for president clemency - now being submitted in record numbers - are best dedicated to requests submitted by persons who can truly benefit from a grant of this request.

    "Real" issues? Yes, real issues indeed.

    These men have expended enough resources to get the idea before two Presidents, both of whom have rejected it. You say that represents "a little time" and very limited resource. I doubt that that is the case. I think it represents a serious expenditure of time and, more importantly, political capital.

    I don't care.

    And anyway, it's not true, at least one other person in this thread has.
     
  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well we'll have to disagree as to how logical all this is, but I respect your right to think that way. That's good by me.
     
  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    The US Justice Department never grants posthumous pardons. It's a policy.
    It was a formality that is part of the process. The real decision lies with the President.

    It symbolically satisfies opinions like yours, but has no real bearing on the process.

    Also, the justice departments resource expenditure isn't even the concern. And what they said doesn't reflect your point about the Senates resource expenditure.

    You are taking things at face value, and applying them in places where they don't fit.

    "What they're doing here is bucking it back to President Obama," King said. "So I would respectfully urge him to grant the pardon. This is the president's call."
     
  11. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    When Johnson was convicted, the judge in the case said "Let this be a lesson to all black people about having relationships with white women."

    Johnson, and America deserves this pardon.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A few things.

    My five worst actions would not rate in Johnson's top 30! Never arrested, in court, etc...

    America is so openly racist they elected the first black president with a Muslim name with over 50% of white people voting for him. I don't see that in any European, or Asian nation electing a minority president, do you?

    Johnson is not a special case and he was worse than Mayweather. Again he assaults women, he assaults the sick, he was a pimp, he fled on a bond, he was kicked out of other nations.

    The black intellectuals of Johnson time didn't like him or worried he would reinforce the worst type of stereotypes, and beating up a women these days is even more taboo than it was 10 years ago.

    But I want to revise something. A Presidental Pardon doesn't take a lot of time, and if Obama, who tried his best to empower minority types wants to, he can add JJ to his pardon list.

    As for guilt, my family was from the North. Slavery was everybody's story, as the African Chiefs used to capture natives and sell them off. Mostly UK ancestry were slave owners.

    Before African slaves the USA actually had Irish Salves, and before that some Europeans were slaves in Africa. But you might not know that because it doesn't fit the narrative.
     
  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    You're comparing 2008 USA to 1910 USA in terms of race relations?
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It does. It's happened twice.

    The US Justice's position that pardon's should be granted only to living persons has no real baring on the process? OK, if you say so.

    Two presidents have said no.

    I suspect that this campaign will continue and that it will continue to remain a draw on political capital, time, Congress's time to the exclusion of other endeavours. As i've said, this seems silly to me.

    That's ridiculous. The quoted paragraph stresses that resources in the area of pardons are stretched. In other words, only so many pardons will be considered. This means that if Johnson's pardon is considered, the pardon of someone living and possibly in prison now will be delayed. That is bad.

    This is true. It's an additional point that stands in addition to the others.

    Now Obama's office has to expend time making the call.

    Again.
     
  15. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    The justice department isn't the only party to hear the pardon request. In fact, they aren't the primary party. It's a formality.

    Yeah Obama will really be bothered by a call asking if Johnson can be pardoned.
    Maybe he can fit it in before the "Coffee with Comedians" bit featuring Jerry Sienfeld?

    Or perhaps he can take the call next time on the golf course?