why joe frazier beats lennox lewis

I really don't think Frazier has the chin to walk through the monstrous uppercuts of Lennox.

 

Frazier ate up smaller technical fighters like Ellis, but he had some problems with strong durable fighters. The four strongest and most durable fighters he faced was Ali, Chuvalo, Bonavena and Foreman. Chuvalo was the only one he had an easy time against.

Foreman might have been even stronger than Lewis, he might have hit even harder and he was a physically more agressive fighter (even though Lewis was very good at turning that asset on when needed), but Lewis still scores far higher in most of these categories than anyone Frazier met bar Foreman. He was also bigger, technically and tactically more skilled than Foreman, and had just as devastating uppercut and about as good a jab.

Frazier, just like Marciano, is a fighter that would fit in badly in the HW division of the last 20 years IMO.

 

I also envisage Frazier beating Lewis,for the reasons stated. Joe would ship some brutal punishment early on,but Lennox would find his pressure excrutiating. Joe takes a late tko or UD.

 

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This.

I just don't think a 200lb Frazier stands much of a chance of walking Lewis down like a lot of people are saying. Sure he might be able to slip the 1-2 but he's gonna get pummelled by the uppercut, and frankly I don't think he can stand up to that kinda punishment long enough to wear Lewis down with a war of attrition.

 

It depends on how Frazier approaches the match.

He fought smart the first fight against Ali because he'd been gearing himself for years to beat this guy who many said was too good for him, he respected the Ali reputation and fought him accordingly. He took advantage of Ali's flaws and came in 100% motivated.

Against Foreman, he thought he was up against raw novice who would be intimidated or too inexperienced to beat him. Frazier went in believing what the majority of the press were saying - ie. he was a cinch to win, Foreman would be found out. He didn't feel a need to have a special fight plan.
(That's not to say he could have beat Foreman if he'd been more serious, but it explains why he was caught fighting so dumb against big George)

If Frazier takes Lewis as seriously as he should, respects the fact that Lewis has dangerous tools that could really beat him, he can produce the performance to beat him. If he studies Lewis like he studied Ali he can beat him.
If he thinks Lewis is just some big lump who will wilt within a few rounds, he might walk into something nasty.

 

I have a hard time believing that a fighter of Joe's caliber and character would have that mindset going into a fight, especially with a young big man like George.

 

Why did he fight so dumb then ?

Why did he attempt a much better fight plan in the 1976 rematch ?

 

I think that Joe was damaged goods when he fought George. He had a difficult time staying in shape and his body was literally beaten to a pulp in the Ali fight, resulting in bum joints, slowed reflexes and loss of sight in one eye.

Joe was a shell of his former self on the night he fought George and nothing else. I don't think theres anyway he could have come out of that Ali fight and ever be the same fighter.

He had taken a hellacious beating, one of the worst I had ever seen over 15 rounds, as did Ali.

 

I agree 100%.

But I think he made things even easier for big George by attacking him in a straight line, and not respecting Foreman's dangerous power.
A lot of people believed Foreman was going to be a far easier opponent than Ali .... I suspect Frazier might have been influenced by that.

 

It was almost like watching Mosley not be able to throw a rand hand vs Pacquiao.... Joe just couldn't perform. He could not do what he knows how to do and had done in the past. He just didn't have it anymore, it was gone. I don't think he wanted to, he just couldn't do it.

 

Anybody suggesting Frazier was the same in 1973 as he was circa 1969-1971 needs to look at Ellis I & II. Jimmy was 29 years old when Joe crushed him in 1970, barely beating the count after the bell in round four, only to be retired by Dundee between rounds.

In their March 1975 rematch, Ellis was 35 years of age, on a two fight losing streak, a four fight winless streak, and had not defeated anybody of note since winning a decision over Chuvalo in May, 1971.

Smoke dropped Jimmy twice in round four after knocking him silly near the end of round three in that first tussle, but failed to put him down in the rematch, and needed until round nine before Angelo again stopped it. 1970 Frazier would have obviously destroyed 1975 Ellis even more quickly and ruinously than he wrecked a 29 year old Jimmy in that initial meeting. Manila was one of the most freakish (if not the absolute most) turn-back-the-clock performances in heavyweight history. Otherwise, he wasn't anywhere near the same following the FOTC, and anybody studying Stander, Bugner, Ali II or Ellis II closely understands that.

During his own era, Joe put a premium on weight control, often expressing an intention during the early part of his reign to come in under 200 pounds. He weighed around 240 to 250 when he originally took up boxing to lose weight as a growing boy, and would probably be competing around 215 to 220 in this day and age, even 225.

Nobody familiar with the cripplingly progressive effects of arthritis and high blood pressure should question how those processes were degrading Joe's body. Arthritis also ended Braddock's career. Smoke's broken ankle in 1970 did his mobility no favors either. I busted mine in two places a year ago, and still haven't recovered the range of movement I enjoyed prior to that.

 

Couldn't agree more. Joe Frazier was a shell of his former greatness and I agree not only on your assessment of his second fight with Jimmy Ellis, but also how the fight with Foreman would have been very different if it were 70-71 Frazier as opposed to 73 Frazier.

 

Well he definitely wasn't easy to catch with the jab. That's one of fraziers strong points. He slipped the jab perfectly.

I doubt Lewis would spark him

 

Superb post. :good