why joe frazier beats lennox lewis

Obviously this is now flogging a horse that has been killed, bagged, buried, dug up, stuffed and left in the sun, but counter-opinion is normal rather than saying "that's just your opinion" as an actual rhetorical advice.

THe definition of refute is to overthrow by logical argument. Yes, it is possible to overthrow opinion with logical argument, it is the basis for all logical though in fact. Yes, it is actually possible to do this in a methodical mathematical way, for example

Premise one: No fighter can be as good as he is going to be during his comeback after 18 rounds of fighting and one year training.

Premise two: Ali fought only 18 rounds and trained for one year before fightin Frazier.

Conclusion: Ali was better for other fights during his comeback.

In this thread, i've undermined your premise one and made you conclusion illogical

You're welcome.

...this has been my point all along. Vitali looked as good as he would look druing his comeback in the very first fight.

It's basic common sense that all fighters need a set number of rounds and fights to get back to sharpness after lay off relative to the other fights in their comeback? Have you not read the thread you've been posting in all day?

Don't be truly troubled, I understand the difference. In fact I try really hard to explain it to you here:

But you ignored or missed or didn't understand what I was saying. Be genuinely troubled no more!

I acknowledge them completely and in their entirety. My point, for the 15th time, isn't that Leonard was unaffected by his layoff - you seem to be struggling desperately with this - but that he was at no time better post three-year layoff than in this fight. Seriously - this is the 8th or 9th time i've explained this to you.

Yes, but your post also stated that the Bowe fight proved that he couldn't do post lay off what he did "in his prime." That is not the issue, nor has it been the point from the off, though you seem determined that it is. My point is, that after a similar amount of rounds to Ali, and having looked worse than Ali ever did against Czyz, Holyfield was able to shake of ring rust as much as he ever would in his post comback career.


Similarly Leonard had shaken off his ring-rust for the Hagler fight as much as he ever would in his post-comeback career after 0 fights. He was not the same as before layoff - that's the important part that you don't understand as my position - he was as good as he would be post-comeback.

Ali was as good as he would be post-comeback for Frazier I. Trying to pretend he was better at his career fattest pre-76 against Mac Foster in a fight which his poor condition was noted and remarked upon - no not his body, his condition - is pathetic and rather strange.

do you think Henry Armstrong was out of shape for Fritzie Zivic? He is supposed to have looked pretty tired around the 10th.

Epic wars fought at an electric pace make every fighter "look tired."

Look at these poor *******s:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_kH3LzYIKE[/ame]

Check it out from around 12 minutes. They are flyweights and they arguably look more shattered than Frazier and Ali did.

I mean do you think Frazier was out of shape for the fight?! His offence falls off too, he was exhausted too.

Well, some ringside reporters were distubed by the shape he was in.

Can you show us them?

Given that you've just said there's "more to being in-ring condition than just looking in shape", how important do you think his being out-of shape in your pictures is?