Why Mike Tyson at his best beats prime Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017.


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  1. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Yes, I think Tyson would beat a 60s Ali and a 70s Foreman and here's why. For the sake of this discussion I will use the Tyson of 1988.

    Lets start with Tyson/Ali.

    1. Hate to be a size queen, but a prime Ali was 210-212 lbs. It wouldn't be a problem too much if he had mega punching power.

    Ali tee'd off on Floyd Patterson for 10 or 12 rounds. Yes he may have carried him, but it was obvious in the last couple rounds that he was going for the KO. And Patterson still managed to finish on his feet. The same Patterson floored by such distinguished luminaries as Rademacher and Roy Harris.

    In another kick at the can in 1972, Ali owned a 30 lbs weight advantage over Patterson and still didn't drop him.

    Which brings me to the million dollar question. How would a 210 lb Ali hurt a 218 lbs Mike Tyson? The same punches hitting Tyson would be the same one's that hit Patterson. Tyson later took the best Ruddock had to offer, Bruno had to offer and as a washed up fighter, Lewis best for 8 rounds. Out of shape, he stood up to a 235 lbs Douglas best punches for 10 rounds

    2. If you watch Ali/Chuvalo, you'll see where Chuvalo was indeed able to land. So Ali wouldn't be unhittable to a much faster (than Chuvalo) Mike Tyson. In addition, Tyson was better defensively than Chuvalo, quicker feet and a harder and better puncher than Chuvalo. I cant imagine Ali having an easier time vs a prime Tyson than he did with Chuvalo

    3. Mobile fighters troubled a young Tyson, none beat him. The reason being that they did too much running, holding and just trying to survive. Sure, that gets you to the last bell vs a prime Tyson. But it never won anyone a fight against a prime Tyson. Because on the score cards, Tyson just racks up points being the effective aggressor. Ali would at some point have to stand their with Tyson if he didn't want to give away the rounds on the judges cards

    4. If Ali tried to stand and trade with Tyson, even iron chins can be cracked. Unlike Foremans and Shavers punches, Tysons was faster, more accurate and came in barrages. Fraizer had Ali the most hurt even though he was a "softer" (in a relative sense) puncher than Shavers and Foreman.

    5. As far as competition goes, before someone brings that up, if you put a young Tyson against a prime Ali's title defenses, it would be pure, unmitigated destruction. Like a grizzly bear in a salmon feeding frenzy.

    On the other hand, if you put prime Ali vs Tysons title defenses, sure Ali likely would win, but the fights would be more competitive than many think. I think Ali would stop Spinks late but it could very well go to the cards (Ali UD) with Spinks giving a solid account of himself.

    6. All in all, assuming Ali doesnt stand and trade, Tyson wins via UD.

    Next Ill do a "Why prime Tyson stops George Foreman".
     
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
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  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali at his best would never lose to Tyson. Tyson starts fast but as his best down commences he falters, can't find a plan B, becomes tentative and more docile....and then gets stopped. Ali by TKO in ten in a one sided fight after the first 3-4 rounds.
     
    Perry, Sep 9, 2017
    Perry, Sep 9, 2017
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  3. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    So young Mike Tyson does about as well as Patterson or Folley but worse than Terrell?? I dont think so.
     
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
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  4. Ronnie Raygun

    Ronnie Raygun Active Member banned Full Member

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    Once Mike Tyson find out he aint gonna intimidate Ali the fights over before Ali enters the ring. Ali by 7th rd tko you say Tyson fast Ali super fast and better reflex better boxing iq also bigger heart and mentally tougher Ali proved more then once he can survive adversity .We all know what happens when Mike faces adversity
    If Foreman,Liston,Shavers,Frazier couldnt ko Ali ,Tyson aint koing Ali
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
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  5. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As Ali himself said after watching Buster knock Tyson out,,," so that's the guy that's going to give me trouble"?
     
    Reinhardt, Sep 9, 2017
    Reinhardt, Sep 9, 2017
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  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You can't look at boxing in that manner. How Patterson, Chuvalo or Terrell did vs Ali has no bearing on how well Tyson does vs Ali. Ali at his best was a proven ATG hwt champion who proved himself like no other hwt champion that he had the will to win of an ATG. It's this lack of character flaws as a fighter that puts him head and shoulders over Tyson.
     
    Perry, Sep 9, 2017
    Perry, Sep 9, 2017
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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tyson could beat a prime Ali, that's not out of the question by any stretch. But Tyson's big flaw for me was that he only fought in spurts after the opening rds. Almost all of his opponents were already stopped or in full survival mode by then so it rarely was a problem for him. But when the opponent still was in the fight and going for it by the middle rds (like Tillis, Douglas and Holy), Mike had a tough night.

    My feeling is that Ali would make him fight for the whole fight and I just don't know if he'd be up for it.
     
    Bokaj, Sep 9, 2017
    Bokaj, Sep 9, 2017
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  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As for Ali's power, I think it would be enough to keep Tyson honest. And that's really the main thing. As long as his punches and movement is enough to keep Tyson away, he can win on points. Doesn't have to stop him.
     
    Bokaj, Sep 9, 2017
    Bokaj, Sep 9, 2017
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  9. Ronnie Raygun

    Ronnie Raygun Active Member banned Full Member

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    Ali would have been too fast for Tyson. Ali bust him up with the jab make Mike miss
    When Mike finds out his best shots aint hurting or landing on Ali he's defeated mentally Ali takes Mikes heart away fights over in 7th.
     
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
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  10. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Idk, I mean, in order to make him fight, he'd have to be willing to stop and trade at some point. But that will come at considerable risk because you couldn't beat a prime Tyson just jabbing and moving and if Ali moves too much with Tyson in hot pursuit, he'll give away rounds on the judges score cards.

    I think Ali would have to hit Tyson a **** number of times before it begins to register. And while he will land punches, Tyson will be bobbing and weaving and making him miss some. So those that land had better do damage. And the way Tyson charged in on say, Bruno, I don't think he'd be discouraged by Ali's power.

    Ali was the greater total fighter over Bruno, but if you compare sheer KO power only, Bruno trumps Ali. Tyson went at Bruno with reckless abandon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
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  11. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Very far fetched. A slower Folley and Chuvalo landed punches. But you're saying that had they been faster and more accurate, then they would have missed and been hitting air all night? Because Tyson was more faster and accurate than any of them.

    It took Lennox Lewis 8 rounds to stop a alcoholic, washed up Tyson while beating him like a bass drum. How does Ali stop a 1988 Tyson in 7 rounds?
     
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
    mike foreman, Sep 9, 2017
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  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh, Bruno was much more powerful, but what quality opponent did he ever stop? Who? Ali stopped Liston, Frazier, Bonavena and Foreman among many other top opponents. No one ever stopped Foreman except Ali. Ali definitely has the best stoppage wins in HW history. Possibly in boxing history over all.

    Ali's punches did damage. Make no mistake about that.

    Tillis should have won the decision against Mike, imo, and he certainly was no banger. He moved and boxed. Ok, Tyson was still green, but he was already more or less physically mature. Douglas was no devastating puncher and he beat Tyson by boxing him (even though he mixed it up at times as well).

    I personally don't think Tyson would walk right through Ali's punches. And a late stoppage win for Ali is definitely not out of the question.
     
    Bokaj, Sep 9, 2017
    Bokaj, Sep 9, 2017
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  13. Ronnie Raygun

    Ronnie Raygun Active Member banned Full Member

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    Ali not going to fight Tyson like how he fought Folley and Chuvalo he will make adjustments
    That's what great fighters do .Can Mike make adjustments when Ali jab busting him up? Who did Tyson beat in 1988 ?A past his prime Holmes,Fat man Tony Tubbs, a scared light heavy weight Spinks. Those guys better then Ali ?
     
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
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  14. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mike Foreman, you are correct. I agree with you. Sadly, you will never get the Ali cult to agree with you....they are as brainwashed as any movie zombie. They talk about Tyson fighting in spurts....ha ha! Ali was boring as hell to watch because he clinched so much. He fought in spurts worse than Tyson, for sure. Tyson is as fast as Ali, outweighs him, throws bonecrunching combinations as opposed to Ali's pit-a-pat, and would not have hesitated to go down to Ali's level in post-fight antics. Tyson was wild and crazy, not a stoic, somber Liston, Foreman, or Frazier. He was intelligent, verbose, and an angry beast from the streets...Ali never saw anything like that.
     
    Vince Voltage, Sep 9, 2017
    Vince Voltage, Sep 9, 2017
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  15. Ronnie Raygun

    Ronnie Raygun Active Member banned Full Member

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    For a boring fightet why is Ali one of the top three heweight champ ever
    You should go back to your rocky movies.
     
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
    Ronnie Raygun, Sep 9, 2017
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