Am I wrecked? Yes. Is this thread going to get lambasted? Probably. When I first came onto Eastside Boxing, I was not much of an advocate for 'old timers'. Some I recognised as innovators, but I dismissed a lot of them as primitive, or 'tough men'. Now, I still liked to discuss or read about these fighters; I felt Iwanted to know the history of the sport I loved, but I had the mindset (and an odd one at that) that when Joe Louis came along a magical turnaround in boxing technique arose. Now, there have been several key developments in boxing that are for another thread entirely, but as Medical Rules have come in, gloves have changed and not only help minimise hand damage (and to an effect, this should allow more fully formed shots and more power shots) and minimise damage to the opponent. The materials have changed. The chemicals used don't give you blood poisoning if your opponent rubs his mitt in a wound. But as my interest deepened, I realised how tough a sport it was back then. How tough must these men have been. I've watched footage; they really hit each other, it wasn't the constant holding I'd been expecting (though of course referees were more lenient and you can find fights of course that really do have excessive mauling in) or thought I'd seen before. Someone kinda' switched a light on (I think it was Manassa) who said 'rank them by how they performed in their era'. I personally feel there have been some real strong eras in boxing, but couldn't understand why it seemed to have thinned as the years went on. I believe it's completely down to the sanctioning bodies and light/super weights that are around. With one title, to get the money you've got to be either the champ, or a known leading contender. So why was there more depth (seemingly) and why do fighters deserve more credit in their alltime standing for fighting in a byegone era. Lets say todays fighters undergo a change in the system; they're told that we're going back to the original divisions. The gloves to be wron are going be the 6 oz. They'll be making weight on the day of the fight. They're will be a bit of adjustement but to an extent, the depth comes back. You've got Strawweights that don't need to boil down now, they're gonna' be fighting Flyweights. Which flyweights can't make weight on the same day, well they'll be fighting as Bantams and so on and so on and so on. Paul Williams would be a fully fledged middleweight from now on and not by choice, unless he wants to make 147 maybe 10-12 times a year, if not a couple of times a month. So in order to get to the top, you need to be the Champ. There's only one title, so its gotta be either Vitali or Wlad. So they gotta fight each other or one of thems gotta be fighting all the contenders and trying to make bucks out of that. So theres a massive amount of contenders now. Any 175lbers that are cutting weight to get there will be Heavys now, as theres no Cruiser division. The only way to get yourself to the top of the rankings for a title shot is to beat the most number of contenders and prove yourself worthy. You can't take one of the straps and defend that against some of the challengers. The only way to possibly fight a number of these guys is to d what is already done and probably have three (maximum four, minumum one) fights a year and repeat this for eight or so years. Or fight more regularly. Obviously, fighters styles are going to change. Smaller guys like Jean Pascal is going to have to adapt his style massively if hes going to fight regularly as a Heavyweight against the likes of Chris Arreola, whos going to have to be in shape if he's going to fight 12 times a year. I'm of the opinion that someone has got to be really, really special nowadays to prove themselves a top fifty fighter. More than ever nowadays, weight jumping and 'World Titles' mean next to nothing unless the competition faced is amongst the best. So which fighters nowdays would see the most drastic change of opponent? PowerPuncher, who dislikes most old fighters, will actually be in handy here as he knows a fair bit about conditioning. Some posters get offended if someones top 50 doesn't include a slew of fighters from the last 15 years. Accusations of 'underrating modern fighters' abound, but when you consider how much more competitive everything would be with less weight classes; I think it would really seperate the cream of the crop. It's survival of the fittest, who can fight the most, whos body can hold up? What kinda' fighter would emerge in the next 20 years as new boxers adapt to the new way boxing works (the old way) So, this above stream of consciousness is probably turd but if anyone wants to contribute, help out with my questions, troll, feel free
With less divisions, the talent pool opens up for each division. Mission to posters; find me guys that cut weight in every weight class to a drastic level. To a point where they would have to fight in a different division because they wouldn't be able to constantly make weight safe. Then find me a fighter in the division this fighter will have to travel to, who can make the weight fine. Try and find me a matchup you would not see today. For instance, could Pac make 147 on the day and be safe to fight in the evening, or at least very strong? If not, if he has to come in at 150 or 151, or 148, if he's fighting for a title it'll be the middleweight title? Which would be held by.............? (which middle can make the day or which big welter would be the best middle? Could Pavlik make 160 on the day? Or would Williams or Martinez be the no.1 in the division? Or someone from 154? Maybe there are fighters who cut so much weight to get to 154 they would need to fight at light heavy as they can't make 160 on the day? Can anyone think of any good examples, over than the tried and tested GMan at his natural weight vs....... Thanks for any responses?
I'm all for reducing the number of weight divisions. Its not difficult to gain or lose a few pounds, I don't get why people cry about it People still have double standards if you adopt this approach. Why not judge the Klitschkos on how they perform? People are happy to say 'Marciano dominated his era', but when it comes to this era the usual 'the heavyweights are **** now' is spouted. People are always biased
There is still talent but not a boxer that draws alot of people in like DLH, Tyson, Ali, etc.. Nobody cares for the young talent anymore and we're losing fans partially because of it(don't forget corruption!). But I'll always be a fan and appreciate young talent such as Bradley who is a good fighter to like because despite being undefeated he fights the best. If the "main media" can't tune into the sport and like these fighters who work their asses off to keep us entertained then forget em.
:goodI used to be guilty of this but realized "Damn, there may not be two brothers dominating the sport again..." so since watching the Chaguev fight as soon as it aired I've come to respect them and think they have what it takes to be legends as Marciano is.
Afew points 1. These days fights need promotion that takes 3months 2. Fighters have 2 fights, 1 in the ring and 1 versus the scale to cut weight/water to be big at the weight. 3. 1 champ for 8divisions doesnt guarantee the best champion holds the belt, or the best men get their shotat the belt 4. Paul Williams doesnt drain more weight than Cotto/Mosley/Margarito to make WW by all accounts
:goodPlus it would be easier to follow champions and make the fighters train harder to make the weight so I'm all for it too.
It would be easier to find top fighters who dont add 10-20lbs in the ring. MAB and FMJ are the only 2 I can think of in recent times Then again even back in the day fighters would cut 4-5lbs of weight for title fights and fight above the weight the rest of the time
Well, I rank by how good they were in their era and how good their era was. And I wouldn't say a certain era is '****' so I think I'd be able to make valid claims and evidence to support my claims. If people disagree than fine, as evidenced by this thread I'm more than prepared to have people throw **** at me
I've just assumed that Williams won't be able to make the weight any more. Not based on anything other than a hunch mind you. I'm not trying to improve boxing per se, just an experiment to see A) How the landscape would change and B) Which fighters might wilt/prosper under a 1920's schedule:good
Someone like Caballero must cut a lot of weight. The guys 6ft and fights at SBW!! With 8 divisions he'd end up at Lightweight against someone like Juan Manuel Marquez :hey
If we went back to the original 8 divisions, and same day weigh-ins, every division would be stacked with talent.