Why never a Whitaker-Chavez rematch?

What's to debate? Duva said what he said.

The Taylor stuff is pretty misinformed and deliberately deceptive.

So at the time of these alleged quotes, Chavez said he would fight Randall and Whitaker if they got made...okay.

This article was written on the eve of the Taylor rematch in September 1994. Randall won the WBA title on the under card. Chavez announced he was on his retirement tour and looked to reach 100 and call it a career. As I recall the idea was Randall and Chavez would have a unification bout within the year. But in 95, the Oscar super fight gets made and Randall ended up making one defense of his title while Chavez took a bunch of busy fights, waiting on Oscar.

Not sure why you are comparing Oscar and Whitaker II offers, different situations as Chavez stock had plummeted in that time. As I said, I think Whitaker II would have likely happened if the Randall fight didn't go down like it did. There was just no point after that, Chavez sought to avenge his loss, and Whitaker moved on as he said he would.

 

True, Taylor was probably struggling to make the weight too by this career stage.

Muchly, but the quote was posted for the Whitaker and Randall content not Taylor.

Don't miss where he said if they couldn't make the fight he'd sit down with Whitaker himself. None of this ever happened.

Chavez got an immediate rematch when he lost to Randall yet after a very controversial win in the rematch he had plenty of time to go around fighting stiffs yet couldn't give Randall a rubber match?

It's pretty obvious King wanted to milk Chavez for all he was worth at this declining career stage. Randall was definitely not part of this picture. King got him that title fight veering him away from Chavez and appeasing him at the same time.

I am comparing the offers because Chavez had a huge money offer to rematch Whitaker a long time before Oscar was in the picture but he declined.

King could easily have had Randall step aside in favor of a Whitaker rematch with big dollars on offer. He had no interest in it at all. I showed earlier how he tried to set up (quite bogusly) Randall vs Whitaker with the winner to fight Chavez. *If he kept his word that is.

He was all about stalling or avoiding Whitaker. I think that's pretty obvious.

I am also hugely dubious Chavez would have fought Whitaker if he beat Randall.

There's a pattern in all this. I don't doubt it was mostly King avoiding the dangerous scenario's but one way or another it went on.

@saad would be able to tell us a bit more i reckon if he's about.

 

Unless Duva was seriously offering Whitaker to come down to 140 to challenge Chavez there I don't think Chavez can really be accused of "ducking" Whitaker.

Obviously, everything about the decisions in the Whitaker fight and the Randall rematch stink of pro-Chavez favouritism and Don King's influence, but that's a different matter.

The failure to make a third Chavez-Randall fight is more of a problem than Chavez not facing Whitaker again.

 

I think it's obvious King milked Chavez between the second Randall fight and the De La Hoya fight. Taylor was no threat by late '94 and then Chavez fought hand picked guys until fighting De La Hoya. De La Hoya/Chavez had the latin fan base of both guys and was a huge $$$ fight.

As for Chavez/Whitaker I think King probably felt Chavez was lucky to get out of the first fight with a "0" still in the loss column and could see 147 lbs. was a bridge too far for Chavez.

I agree that Whitaker probably needed Chavez more than visa versa.

I think maybe if Whitaker had agreed to drop back down to 140 lbs there may have been some chance of a rematch happening.

 

That sort of thing never happens. Duva and King would not let that happen. And at the time of this interview, Whitaker was set to rematch McGirt and would then temporarily move up to win his 4th title in 4 divisions. Was Whitaker and Duva still calling Chavez out a this time? I can't find anything after the Randall loss until 97.

Now they were stalling here. The fact Randall and Chavez were fighting on PPVs together and both talking up a fight suggests that King likely was serious about putting the match together but they were milking it to be sure. Randall was fighting "stiffs" as well until he rematched Coggi when Chavez/Oscar was a done deal.

LAS VEGAS — Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker, a victim of grand theft by WBC-appointed judges in his recent draw with Julio Cesar Chavez, made the Mexican a $7 million offer Saturday for a spring fight here.

Come on, man. From you own article...Duva's November 93 offer was to fight Whitaker in Spring 94. Chavez liked to stay busy and Randall had been the #1 contender for a long time. Everyone just wrongly assumed Chavez would easily get past Randall.

After the draw, Chavez was the one talking up a rematch and Whitaker was the one saying they didn't need to fight again. Then when Chavez is set to give his long time mandatory a defense in winter 94, Duva makes a big money offer for Chavez to move up and fight Whitaker again in the Spring.

I would assume had Chavez beat Randall, the money would have been too good to turn down. I don't for a second believe that 7 million offer stayed on the table after Chavez lost to Randall. And avenging the loss and taking back his title in his own weight class took priority over moving up to Welter and avenging the draw. Whitaker moved on to rematch McGirt and get his 4th title.

 

Duva didn't want the Whitaker rematch to happen until Spring 94 for whatever reason, I guess not that unreasonable, most fighters aren't as busy as Chavez. In the interim Chavez got unexpectedly upset for his title in his own weight class. Whitaker rightfully gave McGirt his rematch, Chavez sought to avenge his official loss in his own weight class, and that was that.

 

Sorry TKC i didn't see that season in there. Unless it's Saturday night i am usually hurried a bit fitting time in here.

Was Chavez really talking a rematch straight after and Whitaker saying they didn't need to fight? Any sources? The Duva offer came pretty fast even tho the date was set out a little (not a lot tho).

I think part of Chavez staying so busy was the chase for the 100 mark.

 

That's a valid opinion but perhaps influenced by the fact of the unjust decision ?
If Whitaker had received the win from the judges, would you still think Chavez should be motivated ?
It's a little bit like Chavez should fight Whitaker to erase the shame/guilt of having been gifted a draw but from Chavez's point of view maybe it's correct to quit while ahead. Whitaker and welter was a bridge too far.

 

Yeah. I hadn't read this. You basically said what I said, and probably better. A bridge too far, indeed.

 

I don't think Whitaker being "Welter" had much to do with anything. Let's not act like he was a physically imposing WW or anything. He was a "small" WW himself. It had more to do with Whitaker being a bridge too far, than WW being a bridge too far.

 

Ah, okay that was my whole point, that the rematch was for a future date and Randall was a pressing matter. It happens. This is a confusing situation to begin with, I just think it deserves more thought then King is evil and Chavez was being a jerk. Chavez was the one chasing Whitaker for years after all, was the one with more to lose with his record, and the one who agreed to move up in weight and get the fight done.


"You've got a lot of courage," Chavez said via a translator to Whitaker as the two men met each other in an embrace in Whitaker's corner after the decision was announced. "We'll make a lot of money in the rematch."
Whitaker did not seem eager for a rematch, saying he felt he proved all he had to and that everybody who saw the fight knows it.
"This is something that could be the most frustrating night of an athlete's career," Whitaker said. "But I'm going to take it like a victory. It happened, it's done."

[url]http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-11/sports/sp-33991_1_pernell-whitaker[/url]


The Duva Spring 94 offer was about two months after the fight, quick offer but not quick enough to keep up with Chavez. In that time Chavez already had the Vegas bout with his long time mandatory Randall secured for January, had fought one tune up in Mexico just weeks after the Whitaker draw, and was a few weeks away from a second with Hooligan by Christmas.

Whitaker would not fight again until Spring so for whatever reason, Duva didn't want him in the ring again until Spring 94 and that's how it went down...curiously not his mandatory against McGirt but a tuneup. By this time Randall II was already in the works, then Chavez needed time off over the cut, and Whitaker was ready for his 4th title. So I don't know what to say, I think Duva blew it by keeping Whitaker out of the ring for so long and then King/Chavez blew it by making Randall wait so long and treating him like an inconvenience they could just take care of and overlook.


Chavez was chasing 100 and he had an ego on him too at this point. It just seems he thought he could beat anybody at LW at any time, and up to that point, had good reason to think so.

 

The fight was made at 145 to suit Chavez.
Chavez came in fit at 142.
Welterweight was too big for Chavez. It wasn't too big for Whitaker.

I'd pick Whitaker to beat some pretty good welters, a few great ones probably. I can't say that for Chavez. And that's not simply for Whitaker being better because at 135 I'd pick them both to beat great lightweights.

Whitaker was comfortable fighting at 147, he lost nothing really with the added weight.

 

I disagree here pretty strongly that WW Pea didn't lose anything. If you watch the fights, I think it's evident he lost much of his movement. He was much more content to stay in the pocket and just make people miss and counter, while using a lot of upper body movement. At LW, he used his legs substantially more and with greater success in my view. Plus, his body work meant a lot more and LW, people forget, Pea was very very good body puncher; but at WW, and with less pop, it didn't matter as much. It was much harder for him to keep people honest. So while I know what you're trying to say, and he was still a great WW, who could beat some great WW himself, to me he did lose something when he went up.

 

Every single Chavez on this forum you have to express disrespect, great hate and downgrade Chavez's accomplishments. Has he raped your mother or something?