Why no questions about Frazier not giving Ali a rematch ?

Stevie G,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Good question.

But Joe Frazier wanted to try the 'entertainment industry' first.
Remember 'Smokin Joe's Musical Revue'

They were signed for a U.S. Tour, and in Europe too, during late 1971 and 1972.
Joe even cut an album with an 11-piece group.
They were re-named 'Smokin Joe and the Knockouts'

Joe also went to Vietnam to entertain the troops on a U.S.O. tour.

Muhammad Ali was aked to go with Joe and visit the troops to help boost morale,
but Ali had better things to do, he had the important fight with Mac Foster in Japan, AH SO!

 

Good thread. Ali beat some quality fighters and he worked his way back into title contention, one thing though is that time heals all wounds.

After all, Ali eventually got a rematch against Joe (albeit not for the title) but they fought twice after the FOTC. Nobody expected Joe Frazier to lose to George Foreman, he was a live underdog but Joe was still expected to wear him down and stop him. Additionally, had Frazier beaten Foreman, Ali-Frazier II would have come off shortly afterwards.

With Ali vs Foreman II it's different because:

1. The perception was that Foreman was going to be champion for a long time given his performances against Frazier and Norton; he was expected to handily beat Ali as opposed to a close fight that Ali-Frazier would have been expected to be even prior to the FOTC. Losing in Zaire was a testament to Ali's greatness but he beat Foreman fair in square and there are some that thought that he may not be able to replicate the win, as a result the question still lingered.

2. A rematch never came off, period. It's one thing for a rematch to come off 2-3 years after; it never came off period. So the cries for a rematch seem to resonate a little more.

 

Ali didn't help himself by going around saying he'd been robbed in the first fight.

The real factor was money. The first fight had made mega millions and both fighters knew that their $2.5 million purses had left plenty to spare for the promoters when the accounts were settled. So Frazier priced himself at $5 million, and Ali said he wouldn't fight for less than $6 million !

Also, there was legal controversy over who held the rights to promote a rematch. Apparently Jack Kent Cooke, who had promoted the first fight, had the absolute rights to promote a rematch, some versions reckoned his contract to do so was only for 2 years. Either way, it covers the whole period in question. Cooke obviously couldn't agree terms with the fighters.

Another thing, Ali was making contradictory statements around the time, as was Frazier, about wanting the rematch or first wanting "a few more warm-ups".

Let's not be naive. Ali wasn't fighting all those guys on his "uncrowned champion tour" because Frazier wouldn't fight him. It was Ali cashing in, making himself some good dough in far less demanding fights. Obviously, him and his managers knew that a Frazier fight was a risk, and two losses to Frazier would be the end of the Ali legend, so it was great business sense to fight a load of retreads and routine contenders before settling matters with Smokin' Joe again.
Ali was getting $250,000 - $500,000 + for guys like Jimmy Ellis, Buster Mathis, Bob Foster, Mac Foster and Jurgen Blin. Easy fights.

 

I guess your reasons are far better than my rationale.

But I still stand by the fact that Frazier didn't get flak because the rematches happened anyway.

 

Unforgiven,

After the Frazier-Ali fight in March 1971, Joe Frazier made more money with his
'Smokin Joe Musical Revue' than Ali did in his fights with Ellis, Mathis and Blin.

Joe had some lucrative contracts appearing in Europe.
5-shows; Tuesday thru Saturday, and (2) on Sundays.

The next Sammy Davis Jr., or so he thought.

 

All of who were light years better than unrated Daniels and Stander

Frazier flat out avoided Ali , because he got him when he was coming back from 3 1/2years of inactivity and with only 18 ring rounds under his belt and still got put in the hospital for a week. A less ring rusty Ali, put matters straight in their other two fights.

 

Joe Frazier took on Ron Stander and Terry Daniels, because their fight fee
was minimal.
Remember these fights were on 'free' National TV.

It was smart business, to get Joe exposure in the early part of 1972.
Joe went on that 'musical revue' schtick gig soon thereafter.

 

Yes, and that explains the same thing from Frazier's side. Both were capable of making money with easy fights. And Frazier was suddenly worth a lot of money for "personal appearances" and his revue band, and whatever else he was doing with his new-found super-stardom.

Frazier and Ali both demanded HUGE purses for a rematch, and meanwhile they made very good money doing far easier things. It's all about the dough.
Obviously they both knew a rematch could spell defeat for either one of them.

 

UnForgiven,

Joe Frazier worked off a small-budget for those (2) TV Title defenses.

Ron Stander got $100,000
Terry Daniels got $75,000

 

Frazier opted for two of the worst defences in HW champion history instead of rematching Ali. When he finally took on a ranked contender he skipped Ali again and faced Foreman instead. During these years Ali was the one fighting like the champion, taking on top contenders Ellis and Quarry along with several fringe contenders like MacFoster, Lewis, Patterson, Bugner etc.

Frazier's reign is certainly among the worst.

 

I would say he didnt earn a rematch at once cause he wasnt champion when he lost to Frazier.

 

The difference being that Ali was fighting rated contenders.

Ali wanted a rematch all most immediately.
He basically tried to force Frazier into fighting him.
Read contemporary magazines of the time, Ali was calling Frazier out every day.

 

Frazier should have retired from the ring after FOTC. Overall, his legacy and definitely his health was damaged after this point.

It would have been perfect timing for him, and saved him some hellacious beatings from Foreman and from Ali in Manilla. They must have contributed to his poor health today.

Not to mention his timely retirement leaving a stain on Ali's record (who he hated) and denying him a chance to avenge it.

Joe physically declined after FOTC. He was never the same after it. It wasn't just how violent their encounter was...a big part of the reason that Joe was in the hospital for so long afterwards was underlying health problems. (High blood pressure? Also his vision was seriously deteriorating).

As has been pointed out, money was a part of the reason for a delay with the rematch. But also Ali had treated Joe very badly, and was a sore loser, so Joe was in no big hurry to help Ali by giving him another title shot.