Why nobody talks crap about Holmes resume

I smack Holmes’s resume constantly and get ridiculed for it. Frustrating

 

Who could Klitschko have fought in his era?

 

I agree with you

 

Well like I said he fought other guys. Years later facing N Spinks 2x and Witherspoon > than Page and Thomas. Besides he beat David Bey in 1985 fresh off his victory of beating GregPage in 1984. That means something.


There are always fighters champions miss out on somebody. For example Lennnox Lewis never fought, Riddick Bowe, Ike Ibeacbuchi, Mike Moorrer, or Corrie Sanders. All of whom are better than or roughly equal to the Page in my opinion.

Holmes resume is fine the way it is and he beat many ring magazine ranked opponents. At least 13! He could have fought a little better but it was good enough. Especially when you compare to Fury.

Like I said politics was a problem. Wins over Norton, Witherspoon, Smith, Cooney and getting robbed vs Mike Spinks not mention a host of other wins vs guys like Shavers, Berbick and Mercer is a good resume. I say no one can name 10 resumes at heavyweight which are better. To say anyone who says his resume is &#^t, bad,or sub - par doesn't know what he's talking about. You get it. Other posters I'm not so sure do.

 

Hes so overrated its insane

 

I disagree Witherspoon was certainly not rated better than Page in 83, Witherspoon's only claim to fame before fighting Holmes was a highly controversial win vs Snipes. He was a relative novice with only 15 professional fights at the time and wasn't that well known, Page was Holmes's mandatory and should of got his shot after the Witherspoon fight. And instead Holmes fought the likes of Scott Frank, Marvis Frazier.

Pinklon Thomas went undefeated for over 7 years, and i disagree Spinks is better than Thomas at Heavyweight, Spinks had no fights at Heavyweight and he got his shot due to his status as a Light Heavyweight not down to his status as a Heavyweight. Thomas definitely deserved a shot during 84-85 era.

That's a bit different though because clearly Page and Thomas, were the best available opponents at the time Holmes decided to avoid them.

Ibeabuchi had a very short run and went to prison that fight was never really on the cards, Moorer was never interested in fighting Lewis, Bowe flat out famously ducked Lewis, Sanders was never rated in the top 10 whilst Lewis was active, Sanders only shot up the rankings after his big upset win over Wladimir.

I don't think many unbiased people would say Lewis avoided anyone, he fought pretty much the best the division had to offer. And whilst you are correct in saying that you can't fight everyone. Clearly Holmes chose easier opposition in his last 2 or 3 years as champion, and avoided Page and Thomas who were seen as biggest threats to Holmes at that time.

Oh yeah i agree clearly Holmes has a superior resume to Fury no doubt about it, and i have no problem with Holmes's opposition 78 to 83 up until Witherspoon fight. It's everything after the Witherspoon fight that i have some question marks over, i do think Holmes avoided some of the tougher opposition after the Witherspoon fight. But again as i said do i think Holmes did it because he's a coward ? absolutely not. He was an aging champion and wanted some easier defences, to ride out his career and retire breaking Marciano's record. I don't have a big problem with that mindset, but i still do think he should of fought atleast Page or Thomas during that time.

 

Well the Witherspoon Holmes fought was better than Page ever was. And Witherspoon overall rates better than Page. The fact that Holmes dusted the man who beat the overrated Page next in 1984 means something. You can say that Page deserved a title shot for about 1.5 years. I won't argue there, but that is a short to duck someone, don't you think?

Anyway facing Spinks twice > Thomas once. Spinks had the right style to upset an older fighter.

All the above fighters were mentioned by the pass to face Lewis, yet none were selected. Bowe avoided Lewis, but for a while Lewis avoided Bowe in 1994, and 1995.

Holmes has reasons why these fights did not happen. Politics and short widows are among them. Like you said a fighter can't fight all contenders. But Holmes fought many of them.

 

It would have been good for his legacy if he had retained his WBC title AND acquired the WBA. Apparently he was signed to fight Coetzee but it was Gerie’s people who backed out. But that may need to get fact checked.

 

I agree, Page was just plain never that good.

I put Spoon over Thomas, too, h2h the Spoon that fought Larry was better.

 

Page was good enough that Holmes decided to vacate the belt.

Joking aside Page did have talent but he was inconsistent, my big issue is that Holmes fought Marvis Frazier, Scott Frank, instead of Greg Page which isn't a good look TBH.

As for Thomas well he did beat Witherspoon pretty clearly when they fought, i'm not so sure i agree he's clearly better than a prime Pinklon Thomas H2H. And to be honest i would of favoured Thomas over Holmes in 84-85.

 

I agree on all points. I feel Spoon was a better fighter (career wise) than Pinklon, and the h2h thing is kind of up in the air. Spoon never looked/fought as good as he did against Holmes imo. He kind of shone his brightest early on, though he had a few highlights after of course and was a very fine heavyweight overall! The Tim who fought Thomas was not up to that level imo.

 

What your is saying though is what we call the beauty of hindsight, at the time no one knew how good Witherspoon was. He was a novice with only 15 professional fights whilst being relatively unknown, and the only fight he had against a known opponent was Renaldo Snipes. In which alot of people consider a gift decision for Witherspoon, the same Snipes that Page beat easily 12-0 when they fought.

My major issue with Holmes not fighting Page in which Page was his mandatory BTW, is that Holmes decided to fight the likes of Marvis Frazier, Scott Frank, the Frazier fight was considered such a poor fight. The WBC wouldn't even sanction it they wanted Holmes to fight Page, then Holmes decides to vacate the belt instead of fighting Page which isn't a good look IMO.

I also don't think Page was overrated he was very talented, the problem was that he was inconsistent and lazy like alot of the 80's Heavyweights.

And also how about Holmes not giving Witherspoon a rematch ?

It's not the samething though Page was Holmes's mandatory, and considered the biggest threat to Holmes at that time. Yet Holmes fought two very weak challengers and then decided to vacate the belt so he didn't have to fight Page.

Ibeabuchi as i already said never even got going as fighter he went to prison.

Moorer when he was asked about fighting Lewis in an interview, never showed any intention to fighting Lewis.

Sanders as i already pointed out was not ranked in the top 10 whilst Lewis was active, only when Lewis retired after Vitali fight.

I don't know anything about Lewis supposedly ducking Bowe 94/95, but Lewis was on the comeback trail after getting KO'ed. And was redeveloping himself as a fighter under Steward. What we do know is that Bowe flat out gave up his championship to avoid fighting Lewis.

As i said before there's a difference between not fighting every single known opponent, and openly not fighting the most dangerous opponent at that time, to fight two very weak challengers which is what Holmes did.

 

I honestly find it bizarre that Holmes WOULD avoid Page. Page lost against three dudes who lost to Holmes: Berbick, Witherspoon, Bey. I remember being a little surprised he stopped Coetzee.

To me, and this is no offense to Page fans, Greg was (like Tucker, Dokes,etc.) just not that good a fighter. Guys like Witherspoon were miles better imo.