Why nobody talks crap about Holmes resume

The most dominant heavyweight champions were Ali, Holmes and Tyson.. anything in-between was nothing. (except for Foreman.. but especially Norton- now there is an overrated heavyweight)

 

You forgot Joe Louis...

 

You JUST beat me to it, my friend.

 

Joe Louis?

 

By a mere 2 minutes...2 MINUTES my dude! Lucky I had some coffee today or you would've beat me by a country mile!!

 

I wonder if the same troll is back? Maybe he cannot leave us alone, here to start trouble again.

 

Trouble is Holmes did avoid him. He even commented in 83 - i'm ducking Greg Page because the money ain't there.

Now Holmes wasn't scared of him but what he was scared of was taking on the most dangerous opponents post Witherspoon at a time when he was chasing Marciano's record and looking to retire undefeated. It was hardly a secret.

 

You certainly know your boxing.

 

This for me gets blown way out of proportion. It's a case of well he looked so good against Larry and gave him so much trouble then it must be his best ever effort, right?

Witherspoon was at his best against Thomas but simply couldn't make headway. He was in great shape and didn't tire vs not being able to make headway against Thomas. Virtually everything he did Thomas had an answer for. It's Pinks finest hour. His jab controlled the fight noticeably more than Holmes did and everytime Witherspoon had some micro momentum Thomas took it away from him. Witherspoon countered Holmes jab with hard right hands to the body but he certainly couldn't do that against Thomas. Thomas had a cast iron jaw so he wasn't going to turn the fight with one punch and didn't have Thomas reeling as he did Holmes.

Holmes had slowed. The Witherspoon struggle showed this plain as day. It was verified in future fights. His jab had lost some snap (where as Thomas was the best he ever was at this time) and his skills and timing were slowly eroding. Witherspoon was young, energetic, skilled and a good puncher. His cross armed defense also troubled Holmes. He no longer had the speed and reflex to hook of the jab to penetrate it. Holmes ended up winning the fight on heart and sheer determination as much as anything. Oh, and experience.

 

Spoon wasn't that sharp vs. Thomas in a close fight. But he did beat Page in 1984 by comfortable margin when Page was highly ranked! This along with wins over Tills, Broad, Smith, Tubbs, and Bruno is a big reason why I rank him 3rd in the 1980's at heavyweight behind Tyson who avoided him and Holmes who narrowly decisioned him.

 

Page’s defeats to those guys came after Holmes had already been stripped of the WBC. Page and Witherspoon fought over it vacantly.

 

This is an interesting idea that makes me want to watch the Thomas/Spoon fight again.

Reading through this excellent post also makes me wonder...what HAPPENED to Thomas before/during the Berbick fight? Should have had that in the bag imo.

 

He managed two fighters and gave a go at a career as a singer. Distractions even if he never had touched drugs, which of course he did.

No wonder he looked middle aged when still in his 20's.

 

Well, he stepped up his competition at that time too. He lost to Witherspoon and Bey in 1984. Later on he lost to Tubbs 1985 and Douglas 1986. Like I said he is over rated today by many.

 

I don’t frankly overrate him nor underrate him. He’s not really a fighter I talk much or think about. The only important thing to address is that in 1983 he was the WBC’s number one contender. Could have been anybody in that spot but the point is that a mandatory challenge was on the line. Didn’t matter if that person were say Bobby Crabtree or Steve Zouski or even Ed “too tall “ Jones. The organization who owns your belt puts up a mandatory challenger and the only logical move is to either sign the contract or give up the belt. Holmes chose the latter..