Why nobody talks crap about Holmes resume

If only every champion fought their #1 contender right away and did not wait a year or 1.5 years untill he clearly lost to better competition. Every champion that I can think of is guilty of this type of avoidance. If we are to be fair, which some are not to Holmes. My point is Page wasn't rated for #1 long and didn't not keep it. It's not like he was the #1 guy for two, three, or four years.

 

Agree. There have been numerous examples of champions in every weight class who went ridiculously long periods without fighting the best. We can both think of many. Holmes went to great lengths to make it obvious though. From 1983 to 1985 there was a wealth of challengers he could have faced. Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, Michael Dokes, Gerrie Coetzee and even rematches with Weaver and Witherspoon all would have been appropriate. Instead he fought Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez, Marvis Frazier, David Bey, Carl Williams, Michael Spinks and a 14-1 James smith who had a short amateur career and was a bit older for a prospect.. and around the time he was fighting Williams and Spinks you had Tony Tubbs who had emerged as a top contender/belt holder. There were lots of options. And to be clear I’m not saying he needed to fight them ALL. But at least 3 out of the 6 or 7 that I mentioned would have alleviated a lot of this criticism decades later.

 

Well he fought some of them form 1983-1985. Witherspoon Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez, Marvis Frazier, David Bey, Carl Williams, Michael Spinks and James. That's a lot! No he didn't fight Page who was not #1 beyond 1984! The early to mid 80's actually had a lot contenders.

I say Witherspoon, Smith and Spinks 2x + the others is good enough for an aging champion. You could swap them out for Page, and Thomas and it would not add much to his legacy if it added anything at all.

 

Dude you’re mentioning the fighters that I just got done criticizing him for fighting. And listed spoon as a good “ rematch “ fight for Holmes given that he had some success post 1983. At the time he wasn’t a world beater. And fighting Williams and spinks in 1985 rather than Pinklon Thomas ? Greg page was still a mandatory no matter how you cut it. Marvis Frazier, Smith, Rodriguez and Frank had no business in a championship ring.

 

That clown that used to be Soul Saliva or Al Sakarin is trying to ruffle our feathers, he needs attention, he needs a date very badly. He is another Gomer Pyle. Just ignore him.

 

You got it right Sangria.

 

Have a look for sure, decent fight and excellent performance from Sink the Pink.

Thomas had a hard life prior and Bokaj touched on some other things.

That was partly where Holmes had it over them. He was a very disciplined and dedicated fighter with enormous determination and pride and was able to maintain a very high standard for a very long time. When he did struggle or wasn't at his best he was able to pull it out. It's (part of) what separates the ATG's from the very goods.

 

As per the last decade or so i have no interest in discussing boxing with you.

Cheers

 

Well Carl Williams went on to get other title shots he wasn't a journeyman! Spinks defended lineal title a few times, Witherspoon won world titles, so did Smith. All after they fought Holmes which proves they were good. People at the time felt Marvis Frazier was going to be a contender, he wasn't. So what if Holmes avoided Page for a year? Every champion doesn't automatically fight the #1 guy within a year and Holmes beat guys in 1984 who beat the over ranked Page. He retired after Spinks.

If only the same standards applied to all we would be buried in the he ducked him stuff for a year.

 

Now worries JT. This thread has been checkmate for a while and you don't have to directly reply to me. Nothing has changed in your view for ten years. There is a lot else to talk about in other threads you know.

 

The same could be said about lots of champion's resumes.

 

A perfect example why i don't give you the time of day

 

You just did, have done so the past ten years, and I predict will do so in the future. See if I'm right again.

I'm 99% sure of it.

 

Holmes went years without facing a mandatory. Not just ONE year. And never engaged in a unification match. In contrast Mike Tyson unified all the belts within about 9 months. Carl Williams was a decent fighter but his career legacy is largely built on the tough fight he gave Holmes. Bonecrusher smith had no rating except the #11 rating the WBA had him at when he fought Larry. I mean seriously dude.. it’s one thing to fight the #4 or #6 or # 9 guys. But to fight a man who’s in nobody’s top 10. That’s a real ugly look. I think the last truly highly ranked heavyweight contender he faced was Gerry Cooney in June of 1982. From that point until he lost the title in September of 1985 everyone else was lower ranked or in some cases not ranked at all.

 

But if Holmes lost prior to Spinks there is a new #1 / champion right? It is a lot easier to unify if you have Don King and all the contenders isn't it? Every tenured champ faces a non-ranked contender. If it lasts a while with the champ avoiding the #1 yeah its a deal. But 1 year, come on. Focus on where the fighters we ranked in 1984, 1984, and 1985. You find that Holmes fought plenty of contenders. He beat two guys who recently beat the#1 raked Page! If you can't see this, it's a rather myopic view.