Why oh why oh why oh why oh why-thanks for being patient-isn't Cocoa Kid in the IBHOF

?

He fought against the absolute "who's who" of the thirties and early forties, ducked absolutley nobody.

The man is 8-3-2 against inductee Holman Williams! One of these early encounters was for the "black ww title", which Kid later lost to Charley Burley, a fighter with whom he would later fight a draw.

But unlike most of his contempories (the emerging Moore aside), Cocoa Kid DID get to fight for a real belt, fighting Jannazo for a version of the world title. Kid dropped a split decision and never fought for the title again.

But he was ducked in a very general sense - including by Sugar Ray Robinson, who refused to follow through on a promise to fight in a charity match when he found out who his feared opponent was (the promoters probably had been a little sneaky with Sugar). Moreover, like Williams, his great rival, Kid had to wait until the end of his career to mix it with some of the greatest names in boxing - Lytell and Moore both beat him in his fading years.

But Cocoa Kid (real name Louis Hardwick) still had enough with over 200 fights and 50 losses behind him, to beat guys like Gene Buffalo and Joe Carter. A deluxe counterpuncher he was never anything less than excellent when in his prime, and although he was certainly a "business" fighter, that was the nature of the beast for talented black fighters at this time, and I don't think the IBHOF makes moral judgments of this kind?

Some of the fighters Kid beat whilst eeking out a living in the WW and MW divisions:

Jack Chase
Slugger White (who fought a draw with Armstrong)
Phill Furr
Jimmy Leto
Chalky Wright
Eddie Booker
Young Peter Jackson
Frankie Britt


Taking into account the horribly under-celebrated series with Williams and the draw with Burley, I think Cocoa Kid would be a fine addition to hall.

Yes he lost plenty - and it's always going to be impossible to distinguish losses from "business losses", so let's not try - but he also won plenty in what was a lenghty and distinguished career.

Anyone else an admirer of The Kid?

 

Yes, the Jannazo loss hurt him, unquestionably. There is absolutley no point in getting into a thing where you try to decipher the possibility that this fight was thrown/fixed, but it does seem curious to me that Kid drops this tight decision to Jannazo whilst so thoroughly dominating a peak Williams.

Marhsall certainly did business. Lytell, my guess is no. Chase, I have no evidence, but fighting, as he did for a spell, out of California, which was the filthiest state by a country mile in terms of boxing fixes etc., i'd be astonished if he didn't. I've heard it said that the Billy Smith fight was not on the up and up. Who knows really? There is no film of Chase anywhere, I don't think, so trying to pin a fix/carry to him is nerarly impossible.

It was so difficult to avoid though. Even Burley was involved, "going easy" on the LHW contender Billy Smith in their first fight to secure a second...

 

Well I was appealing based upon the standards that exsist (and therefore the inductees that exsist) rather than some imagined higher standard.

As to Cocoa, he was certainly inconsistant but one can be inconsistant and great at the same time.

Here, the problem is more complex anyway.

 

I agree. Not neccesarily because it's "not worth knowing" or because it doesn't make a difference, more because there just seems to be no possible way to make a distinction.