Why Oleksandr Usyk Is More Than Capable Of Moving Up & Dominating The Heavyweight Division.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Sep 7, 2018.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,165
    228,636
    Nov 23, 2013
    Much is being made of the issues that Usyk will face since it appears that in his not so distant future, he'll be northward bound. Personally I don't think he'll struggle in the least, in fact, an argument could be made that the lower he weighs the better he'll do. In my opinion all he needs to gain is one measly pound, and that'll be more than enough, 5 or 10 is fine, but he should set that as his limit. Power is never going to be his strong suit, while respectable, he's no Deontay Wilder in that department. His main attributes are his three S's, speed, stamina and skills, all of which would be greatly hampered if he gained too much weight. A indefatigable nimble fleet footed Usyk is preferable to a lead footed slow lumbering Usyk.

    There's been a lot of debate as to whether matches in the World Series Of Boxing should be considered professional bouts and added to fighters pro records. After all, most of them are contested with either 10 or 12 oz. gloves, and they don't wear headgear while participating in them, on both counts, that's the same as they do it in the pros. At the beginning of their professional careers, fighters usually start out with 4 round fights, gradually work their way up to 6 rounders, then on to 8, 10 and eventually 12. Well matches held in the WSB are all 5 rounds. Personally, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be counted as pro bouts and added to their records. So if they were to eventually be added to his pro resume, that would put his record at 21-0 13 KO's. That would also mean that not only did he make his pro debut in the Heavyweight Division, but stayed there for 6 whole matches. In his very short stint in the division, he managed to rack up one of the division's more impressive records.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, "but these guys were still technically amateurs". But wait!!! I often see the argument being made constantly that these long time amateurs with 300+ matches in the unpaid ranks, shouldn't be expected to drag ass after turning pro, because they have such an immense record, a ton of experience, have seen every possible style and are so well schooled that they are fully prepared for anything that can be thrown at them. Its been consistently suggested that they should be mercilessly tossed into the deep end without a life jacket soon after turning pro. Because after all, they have a far deeper technically complex skillset and are more well rounded than many fighters that turned pro at a young age and have fought tin cans for the first 5 or 6 years of their careers. Not a word of what I just said is untrue, which is why guys like Lomachenko, Joshua, Usyk and Gvozdyk were able to make the transition to pro far more seamlessly than most. Because they were all pretty close to the total package upon arrival, and were more than ready to rumble with the big boys.

    Now, this is why Usyk can and will dominate at Heavyweight. Since these are as close to pro as you can get, watch them all, analyze them thoroughly, they're not that long. You'll see how Usyk not only effortlessly deals with much larger fighters, but in some cases he excels when fighting them. Usyk has always had more issues with smaller pressure fighters that come in low than he has when he has an elevated target he can take aim at. His defense is so sound, his reflexes so quick, he can evade almost everything that's coming back at him with the greatest of ease. Watch and behold!

    His pro debut at Heavyweight was against one of the best fighters New Zealand has to offer, easily now one of their top 2 Heavies. Junior Fa is a guy who'd gone 1-2 with Joseph Parker. He has decision wins over all of these talented fighters Arslanbek Makhmudov, Haji Murtuzaliyev and Avery Gibson. He's currently rising up the ranks as a real pro, occasionally looking great, sometimes underwhelming. Not amazing by any means, but.. a solid guy with an iron chin to make your pro debut against.
    This content is protected


    His second fight at Heavyweight was a step down from Fa, it was Eric Brechlin, who was a subpar amateur, but he needed to test the waters and get his feet a little wet against some minnows before being tossed right in with the sharks. Brechlin's best win was over Evgenios Lazaridis. He was basically a bum that regularly got outpointed by superior fighters, but it was uncommon than he'd get stopped. Hell, he even went the distance with Anthony Joshua right before AJ made his pro debut. Usyk made quick work of him, dismantling and stopping him in 3. Albeit a slightly bull**** corner stoppage, but a stoppage nonetheless.
    This content is protected



    Then after feasted on that bum, he took a ginormous leap forward in class against Joe Joyce, the very same Joe Joyce that was robbed of a Gold Medal at the Rio Olympics, the same Joe Joyce that since turning pro has torn through Ian Lewison quicker than Dillian Whyte, and through Lenroy Thomas quicker than Breazeale and clearly David Allen, who Thomas beat. Add to that his list of impressive wins over Filip Hrgovic, Ivan Dychko, Demirezen, Stankovic, Gibson, Modugno and what should have been a win over Yoka, who stopped David Allen recently. The fairly quick massive 6'6 Juggernaut dwarfed Usyk in the ring, surely Usyk's gonna get his as beat right? Nope... its debatable if Joyce even won a round, had it been more than a 5 rounder, Usyk may have scored a stoppage over Joe.
    This content is protected


    Next in line after Joyce, they brought in fresh off of his dominant victory over Anthony Joshua, the beastly Azerbaijani Magomedrasul Medzhidov, who beat the absolute best of the best, scoring a vicious KO win over Ivan Dychko, alongside wins over Cam F. Awesoe, Magomed Omarov, and victories over fellow (robbed) AJ conquerors the brilliant Roberto Cammaerelle on points, and Erislandy Savon via stoppage. Medzhidov is a monster, with vicious KO power, AJ was rocked to his core several times against him, with headgear on, yet Usyk was completely unaffected by the Azerbaijanis bombs, aside from a deflected shot that landed below Usyk's belt. Usyk comprehensively dismantled Medzhidov, and like with Joyce, had it been a 12 rounder, maybe even an 8 rounder, he would have probably stopped him.
    This content is protected


    Okay, fine... after that back to back Murderer's Row he needed an easy stay busy fight, so he feasted on some of Joe Joyce's leftovers. Joe stopped fat worthless gelatinous Italian blob Matteo Modugno in the 4th on cuts, well Usyk always wanting to one up the competition, outdid Joe, by dropping and stopping the mountain of lard in 2. But... for what its worth, Modugno also holds victories over current Polish Cruiserweight beast Michal Cieslak, decent Ukrainian Arkhypenko and managed to stop the iron chinned Sean Big Sexy Turner, and quicker than Nathan Gorman, and is undefeated since joining the pro ranks. So... that might end up being not bad a win after all.
    This content is protected
     
    bjl12, lordlosh, Jackman65 and 33 others like this.
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,165
    228,636
    Nov 23, 2013
    He capped off his run at Heavyweight by stepping in the ring with the man himself, yes, the Romanian Werewolf Buzzsaw by the name of Mihai Nistor, the man who viciously KO'd Anthony Joshua, a loss so brutal and damaging to AJ's psyche, it brought poor young Anthony to lip quivering tears. He also holds a victory over Roberto Cammarelle who beat AJ's ass as well, sadly he got robbed of his winning effort. Mihai is a relentless pressure fighter with a solid chin, who stays in fighters grills from the word go. He's a tough out for anyone, but the idea that Usyk was willing to put himself in harm's way and take on the guy that stopped AJ with headgear on, without headgear on, is a true testament to not only his bravery but to his iron chin as well. Usyk weathered a rough start, but warmed to the occasion to win a close but very clear uncontroversial decision over Nistor.
    This content is protected


    That right there is a damn impressive record at Heavyweight, hell... it could be argued that its far more impressive than Breazeale, Molina, Szpilka, Martin, Stiverne and Washington's.

    But you may ask me, but wait, Usyk has been fighting tiny little Cruiserweights, these guys he's been beating wouldn't stand a chance above 200 right?..... Au contraire mon frère.:deal: Not only could some of the guys that Usyk has beaten at Cruiser possibly hang with decent Heavyweights, many of them actually have... and beaten them!!!


    Here's a few examples.

    Here's Glowacki beating poor Steve Cunningham to a pulp, dropping him several times, and unlike Tyson Fury didn't cheat with a forearm to do it, and also unlike Fury, Glowacki wasn't dropped on his keister by USS either. Steve was coming off of an impressive win over Amir Mansour, and two robberies against Tarver and Glazkov, one a draw, the other a close UD loss.
    This content is protected


    Here's Marco Huck smothering, mauling and manhandling the living hell out The Russian Vityaz himself, Huck was ruthlessly robbed of his rightful victory in Germany no less, in a match that should have been scored 115-113 in his favor. Huck rocked Sasha several times and tossed him around the ring, roughing him up like a red headed stepchild.
    This content is protected


    And let us not forget the man that Usyk went toe to toe with in an all out war, taking bomb after bomb against, Mairis Briedis. This was Briedis who in his short stint at Heavyweight accomplished a genuinely vicious feat, that only one other Heavyweight has been able to pull off, only he did it 2 rounds quicker, KTFO6 style. Briedis like Povetkin KO'd Manuel Charr OUT COLD, since then Charr had close fights against Duhaupas and beat Alexander Ustinov, a behemoth of a man. He didn't lay a finger on Briedis and lost every round up until the brutal KO.

    Think about that, Usyk took flush shots from a man who KO'd Charr colder than a juiced to the gills on meldonium Povetkin. Usyk's got CHEEN.:deal:
    This content is protected


    Don't take anything I just wrote lightly, I'm not twisting the truth or bending reality to push any pro-Usyk agenda. I'm merely stating the reality that not only can Usyk hang with the behemoths at Heavyweight, no matter how big they are, but he can do so more effectively than he can against his fellow Cruisers. If anything, he excels against taller, larger, slower, less agile fighters. But... not only can Usyk hang with the big boys, but so can most of the guys he's beaten at Cruiserweight as well, hell... many of them already have.:lol:

    Usyk will do just fine at Heavyweight, no need to worry, precision beats power and timing beats speed, but... Usyk also has decent power and incredible speed, add to that, impeccable defense, astonishing footwork, brilliant control of range, and one of the best gas tanks in the sport. He's not only a threat at Heavyweight, but all encapsulated in one man... he's all of their worst stylistic nightmares combined. He's Ray Leonard, Joe Calzaghe and Vasyl Lomachenko all wrapped up in the body of a young Muhammad Ali.:ggg:ggg:ggg:ggg

    #FACTS:deal:
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,165
    228,636
    Nov 23, 2013
    Also...... as an addendum.

    Never Forget.:deal:
    This content is protected


    Haye at this point had only fought at Heavyweight once, and weighed 217 pounds for his fight against Valuev, who was exactly 100 pounds heavier at 317. Haye is only 6'2, maybe, and Valuev is every inch of 7 feet tall. Not going to get much more of a size disparity than that. Granted, Wilder and AJ are far more fluid than Sugar Nikolay, but not that much more. aye is less fluid and elusive than Usyk, so it all kind of evens out..


    I'll throw in a few more examples. Here's Marco Huck going back up to Heavyweight earlier this year to take on Yakup Saglam, who lasted 2 with Parker and Charr. Huck who is closer to being shot to **** than not, just stopped him in 4 rounds.
    This content is protected



    Briedis beating Mike Perez at Cruiserweight, this is not the demoralized, mentally shot self admitted drunk that fought a roided to the gills Povetkin, this was a reinvigorated far more mentally sound Perez, the same one that had very close back and forth matches with top Heavyweights Bryant Jennings and Carlos Takam. Well Briedis beat him far more convincingly than either of them. And yes he beat him soundly, in spite of how all the BS artist haters try to spin it. Perez tried his best to rough up and spoil his way through the match, those efforts were constantly thwarted and nullified by the Latvian.
    This content is protected



    This is recent Usyk victim Michael Hunter making his debut at Heavyweight against Iago Kiladze, who while being sick with influenza managed to endure a drawn out 6 round beating at the hands of Adam Kownacki, who happened to savagely dispose of a Szpilka in 3. Hunter dominated and stopped a healthy Iago one round quicker in 5.
    This content is protected
     
  4. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

    28,390
    39,771
    Jan 7, 2014
    If Usyk ever loses it will be because of corruption:deal:

    Good thread by the way:eeeeek:
     
  5. LeftRightDownThePipe

    LeftRightDownThePipe Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    1,897
    2,779
    Aug 14, 2018
    Can’t wait until Usyk moves up. The triggering it will cause in here will be insane fun.

    This content is protected


    “B.. Bu.. But he ain’t big enough doe!”

    After he goes on to collect the belts there will then be that old stupid go to of...

    “He just dominating in a weak division doe!”


    CAN’T WAIT :D
     
  6. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

    31,125
    28,947
    Apr 4, 2005
    He definitely has the skills to compete. His movement is superb and a rare thing at heavyweight these days in this era of giants and it will be a shock to many heavies to face such an elusive target.

    Only areas of concern I have is how does Usyk handle the power of the really big guys with the smaller gloves and what if he does find himself in a fight where he's pressured on the inside, from what I've seen of Usyk he's a pure out side boxer haven't seen if he can fight in close at all. If he has no inside game like Wlad had none then the danger is one he gets outfought inside by someone or more likely someone like Fury out boxes him from range by simply being too tall and rangy.
     
    ikrasevic, Mr Icaman and Vykus like this.
  7. Vykus

    Vykus ɹoolɟ ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ ʍǝᴉʌ ǝɥʇ Full Member

    2,263
    2,675
    Feb 21, 2018
    Lol, what are you talking about, it could be argued that a 200 pound Briedis beat him. That fight was so close a rematch is still in order. I think Usyk is a superb Cruiserweight. If im Usyk, id reign as the unified Cruiserweight champ and simply challenge the heavyweight champs like champs used to in the old days. I dont think Usyk hits hard enough to trouble the genuine heavies, but he is skilled/fit enough to run rings for 12 rounds around those limited in boxing ability.
     
    Rilz and Jackomano like this.
  8. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    9,075
    6,785
    Jan 13, 2017
    Nelson knew the signing was coming with this big up imo, hes a sky man..Right all the same though
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  9. destruction

    destruction Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,251
    12,647
    Mar 26, 2009
    The HW desperately needs a bit of excitement from a boxing perspective- Usyk moving up to HW really brings that.

    Robotic AJ at the top with 3 belts is now becoming boring. His style is also now becoming more and more Like Wlad who was in a lot of boring fights.
     
  10. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

    31,125
    28,947
    Apr 4, 2005
    I think AJ's last 2 lack luster performances were down to his opposition and his own flaws. Fact is Takam and Parker didn't want to trade, they got on their bike and spent much of the fight trying to stay away while Joshua tried but failed to cut the ring off on them.

    Povetkin won't be sticking and moving looking to counter he'll roll forward like a tank and try to take AJ's head off and that should result in a more entertaining fight.
     
    minemax likes this.
  11. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,165
    228,636
    Nov 23, 2013
    Thread reworked and upgraded, its far better now than the decent original version I hastily posted earlier.:roto2cafe:
     
  12. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,165
    228,636
    Nov 23, 2013
    No, it can't be argued that 200 pound Briedis, who happens to have two wins over Heavyweights Perez and Charr, beat him. At the very worst Usyk won it 116-112, I can't see 115-113, an argument could be made it was as wide as 117-111 or 118-110. Just because someone is competitive in every round doesn't mean invariably they should all be scored 10/10, they were all 55/45 or 60/40 type rounds, than leaned in Usyk's favor. And like I stated in my article, smaller guys tend to give Usyk more issues than larger.
     
  13. Vykus

    Vykus ɹoolɟ ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ ʍǝᴉʌ ǝɥʇ Full Member

    2,263
    2,675
    Feb 21, 2018
    Yes it can. Im going off the judges scorecards and everyone elses, not yours; 115 -113, 114-114, 115-113. I had it 115-113 Usyk, most internet boxing pundits, boxing journalists and newspapers had it 115-113 either way or a draw. With the consensus being it was so close, of course it can be argued Briedis won, thus why a rematch is warranted. Briedis beat a 197 pounds Cruiserweight Perez, not Perez at heavyweight, and long live Manny Charr, but he doesnt exactly have either a huge punch or a granite chin, Charr is made for a cruiserweight testing the heavyweight waters. Usyk wont dominate at heavyweight, its ok to be a fan but keep it real, WSB 5 round fights are a lot different to pro 12 rounders, Usyk can clean up if he maintains his position as unified world Cruiserweight champion and nitpicks the big money heavyweight fights to get paid, his management should push him in this direction. Giving up his belts and taking a heavyweight loss in the next 18 months will be the dumbest career/ financial decision hes ever made.
     
    jmashyaka likes this.
  14. Chuck Norris

    Chuck Norris Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,031
    35,294
    Aug 31, 2016
    The heavyweight division is getting more exciting with which passing second! With a few fights at the division, Usyk has a very good chance to beat AJ or Deontay. Another thing about Usyk. If he is victorious against Bellew, than he is definitely the lock in for fighter of the year. :chuck:
     
    minemax and CST80 like this.
  15. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    He has the skill to do it, it all depends whether his skill can make up for his lack of size when comes up against the likes AJ, Wilder and maybe Fury if he gets back to peak shape.

    I’m betting it won’t and imo Joyce isn’t the best example of how he would look against a big man coz Joyce isn’t a top 5 guy. That robotic plodding style is always gunna be easy work Usyk but throw the speed and power of Wilder or the jab and power of AJ and it could be a whole different ball game. Just look at how tight the Breidis fight was and how easy the Gassiev fight was, it’s all because of their styles.
     
    Jackomano and minemax like this.