Why Oleksandr Usyk Should Be P4P Number 1 Over Both Terence Crawford & Naoya Inoue.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Aug 2, 2023.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    For starters, let me throw this out there for a nibble. Usyk's two wins over Joshua, trounces Bud's win over Spence and Inoue's win over Fulton.

    Clearly based on the article I wrote the other day... I've never held Spence or his skill set in highest of regard, and with the utmost confidence, I've been picking Crawford to dominate and KO him for quite some time. So to me, the ease with which Crawford dominated him wasn't even the least bit surprising or shocking to me. I don't care about public perception or odds, I value my own judgment over theirs any day of the week. Quite frankly I value IB, Serge, Kirk and several others on here over theirs as well. So all of the billing and marketing of that fight means **** all to me. So obviously that takes a bit of the luster away both leading into and the night of, when you never see something as remotely competitive. Now obviously that doesn't mean Crawford isn't a top operator, he clearly is, but the fact that Porter, Kavaliauskas, Gamboa and even Benavidez gave him tougher fights is an indication of just how overrated Spence was going into the fight. It's not an indication of some mythical level Bud was able to kick it into.

    As far as Usyk goes, sure I've done my fair share of criticizing of AJ, but if anyone ever asked me which of the two I view as being the more complete boxer, I'd have probably picked Joshua. My criticisms were more of a reaction to the delusional British fans hyping him up as the next Mike Tyson and a future all time great, while blinding themselves to his countless shortcomings and flaws. But on a fundamental level, when you peel back all of the BS, AJ's skill set if anything is being underrated now, with people randomly picking every Joe Schmoe they can think of to beat him. Which I find utterly ridiculous and the definition of recency bias. Unlike Spence, who's had the same style since day one, who's never shown the ability to change up his style or adjust. Most of that is due to being matched really well against featherfisted opponents who flattered him. AJ has had to face a veritable murderer's row of style clashes. Which forced him to learn how to adapt and frequently, sometimes making several adjustments per match. Also, Usyk is the much smaller man, and he doesn't have decent power to rely on like Bud and Inoue.

    When it comes to Inoue scoring his recent KO victory over Stephan Fulton, that was another match that I never saw as remotely difficult to predict the outcome of. Not saying Fulton was a hypejob, he's clearly skilled. But he's never really shared the ring with anyone who's a stylistic challenge for him, barring Figueroa, and let's be honest, he was lucky to get the Majority Decision victory that night. But the only thing Brandon brought to the equation was suffocating pressure. He didn't bring a tremendously high ring IQ, incredible accuracy, a ramrod jab, angles, combination punching and exquisite footwork to the table. No one that Fulton has ever faced even remotely prepared him for what Inoue was coming for him with. He existed in that PBC bubble, and was feasting on subpar opposition like Arnold Khegai, who's never had a noteworthy win and went on to go life and death with Eduardo Baez, a Navarrete, Aleem and Lara victim. Then there's the thoroughly unproven Angelo Leo, whose best wins were over the walking cadaver of César Juarez and featherfisted never was Tramaine Williams. Leo went on to get a huge gift over Aaron Alameda, and hasn't fought in 2 years. Then there's the recently retired Danny Roman, the version which Fulton faced, had definitely seen better days. He was coming off of losing to Akhmadaliev and getting very favorable scorecards against Doheny and Payano, both matches he was lucky to get wins in. So what worth does this really bring to the table?


    Now, let's look at the actual resumes of their "best wins". I'll break their wins into A level, B level, C level and D level. At least at the time when he fought them. I'm not wasting my time doing Fulton's, Figs is his best "win" easily. It's B level. Khegai, Leo and the version he fought of Roman, solid C level.

    Then after that, I'll break down the resumes of Usyk, Crawford and Inoue themselves.

    Spence
    A Level

    Crawford - Best wins, Porter, Postol, Horn, Kavaliauskas, Gamboa, Diaz, Benavidez and Brook. Spence was thoroughly dominated and TKO'd. Never even remotely competitive in the match.

    B Level
    Danny Garcia - Has never looked great at WW, coming off of two long layoffs, countless questionable decisions, only taking stay busy fights against subpar opponents. Was contemplating retirement. Very little power at 147. Best at 140.
    Shawn Porter - Arguably lost to Shawn, who was coming off of barely scraping by Ugas, Garcia and looking bad against Granados. Another featherfist. Forgivable losses against prime Thurman and Brook.
    Kell Brook - Best win, his MD over Porter, no other notable wins. Coming back down from 160 and having his face caved in by GGG. Which takes a degree of luster off of this win.

    C Level
    Yordenis Ugas - Barely beat Dulorme, Ghvamichava, Ramos, based on styles had a close match with Porter and beat an old shot Pacquiao. Always had a questionable chin and featherfists. Lost to Amir Imam.
    Mikey Garcia - 135 pound fighter, had no business fighting what should be a 154 fighter at 147, win is insignificant.
    Lamont Peterson - Coming off of losing to Garcia, getting a gift against Felix Diaz and barely scraping by Avanesyan. Went on to be brutally KO'd by Lipinets in his next match. A noted featherfist.
    Chris Algieri - I love Chris, but all this match proved was that Spence was better at cutting off the ring than Provodnikov (who isn't?) and has better killer instincts than Manny.

    D Level
    Carlos Ocampo - Best win is Mikael Zewski. Pitiful opponent.
    Leonard Bundu - Best win, barely beating Frankie Gavin, featerfisted and horrendously crappy opponent.
    Alejandro Barrera - No notable wins, stay busy opponent. Amount of SD wins is off the charts.
    Chris Van Heerden - Best wins, Cecil McCalla and Steve Claggett. A SD and an MD. Featherfisted.
    Phil Lo Greco - Zero notable wins before or after, claim to fame, featherfisted Porter victim.
    Vargas - Stay busy opponent, zero notable wins, claim to fame, tough journeym
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Joshua

    A Level

    Oleksandr Usyk - Lost to him twice, a Cruiserweight ATG, with an incredible resume, with wins over Briedis, Gassiev, Glowacki, Hunter, Bellew, Chisora, Huck, Mchunu, with semi-pro wins over Majidov, Fa, Nistor and Joe Joyce. AJ tried his heart out, but was overmatched.

    Wladimir Klitschko - ATG, coming off of loss to a hyper cautious terrified Fury, before that a damned near 12 year undefeated streak. With wins over everyone significant in the HW division, took AJ to the limit, in a FOTY candidate. Monster power.

    B Level
    Andy Ruiz Jr. - Has wins over AJ himself, Ortiz, Arreola and arguably got stiffed on the cards against Parker. Came back to win by dominant shutout. You and I, despite the odds, identified him to be a stylistic hiccup. Average power.
    Kubrat Pulev - 1 loss going in, at the hands of Wlad, had dominant wins over Hughie Fury, Chisora, Dimitrenko, Ustinov, Dinu, and went onto dominate Forrest and lose a controversial decision to Chisora in the rematch. Average power.
    Alexander Povetkin - 1 loss going in, to Wlad. Dominant wins over Chagaev, Wach, Charr, Takam, Perez, Duhaupas, Wawrzyk, Rudenko, Hammer, Price, went on to UD Hughie, draw with Hunter and brutally KO Whyte. Devastating power.
    Joseph Parker - Had wins over, Ruiz, Takam and Hughie. Went on to get stiffed against Whyte, beat Fa, Chisora and Massey. Lose to Joyce. Little power.
    Dillian Whyte - Went on to beat Allen, Helenius, Rivas, Chisora, Wach, Povetkin, struggled with Chisora the first time as well as Franklin and Parker, but got the wins, got KO'd by Povetkin and Fury. Big power.

    C Level
    Jermaine Franklin - Not a great win, but arguably deserved the nod against Whyte, and while close, he has a win over Forrest.
    Carlos Takam - Has gone onto take Makhmudov to the limit, beat Yoka, dominant win over Forrest. Before that, got stiffed against Perez, gave Parker hell. Light power, tough as nails journeyman.

    D Level
    Charles Martin - Coming off of Glazkov win, went on to give Kownacki, Jared Anderson and Ortiz hell, but lose. Good win over Washington. Decent power.
    Eric Molina - Gave Wilder fits, coming in off of KOing Adamek. Fell apart afterward and turned into a pisspoor journeyman. Decent power.
    Dominic Breazeale - Coming off of wins over Kassi and Mansour, went on to beat Ugonoh, Molina, and Negron, then be sent into the shadow realm by Wilder. Decent power. Solid journeyman.

    Now when you take into consideration, from a technical perspective, the AJ that Usyk fought was probably the best AJ we've ever seen, and kind of looked impressive throughout. Where Spence was coming off of three sketchy performances, one he should've lost, and the other two, he got badly rocked in and lost his composure. Clearly suffering from balance issues. Also, the car accident clearly has negatively affected him and he was chinny before it. He looked compromised and drained going into the ring. So yeah, the match based on styles was never even to start with. Then add in the extenuating circumstances. The wins over AJ were levels above Crawford's win over this version of Spence.


    Now, onto breaking down the rest of their resumes.


    Crawford

    B Level

    Shawn Porter - Had seen better days, coming off of struggling to beat Ugas, probably should've beaten Spence. Bud's best win, and it was easily his toughest test.

    Errol Spence Jr. - Already said enough earlier. This was a compromised, post accident, drained version. Still think Bud beats any version though.

    Egidijus Kavaliauskas - One of Bud's better wins, only lost twice, once to Bud the other to Vergil Ortiz. Probably one of the more technically sound operators he's faced. Although he did struggle mightily with Ray Robinson and Juan Carlos Abreu. He also was being outboxed by Zewski and down on two cards. Which takes some of the luster off of this win.

    Viktor Postol - Sure Postol was coming off of two great showings, against a Matthysse with one foot out of the door and the Robert Guerrero beatdown victim, Selcuk Aydin. The man has always been a counter puncher not accustomed to taking the lead, and he's not one to go outside of his comfort zone all that often. Stylistically this match was the definition of a mismatch. Since then, he got a gift against Najmitdinov, lost to Taylor, got robbed against Ramirez, and then became a big name punching bag for the likes of Elvis Rodriguez and Gary Antuanne Russell. Probably one of Bud's best wins.

    Yuriorkis Gamboa - Went life and death with Michael Farenas and Orlando Salido at Featherweight. Always had an air of fragility. Bud was outgrowing the division, Gamboa was basically brand new to it. Always a mismatch. Still, a great match. Lost a bit of its luster with him going on to be humiliated and stopped by high level journeyman Robinson Castellanos, needing a gift to beat Alexis Reyes and Jason Sosa. Since then, professional journeyman. This should probably be C level.


    C Level
    David Avanesyan - Lost to Peterson, barely scraped by ancient Mosley, brutalized and stopped by The Mean Machine. Best wins, KOing glass jawed Lejarraga and popping the cherry of featherfisted hypejob Josh Kelly.

    Jose Benavidez - Coming back from being shot in the leg, had greatly inhibited movement compared to the version before. His best win was over Jorge Paez Jr, which says it all. You notice I didn't say Herrera? That's because it's universally recognized as one of the worst robberies of 2014. He's the definition of an underachiever. At his best fights in spurts and steals rounds after lying on topes and allowing himself to be outworked for long stretches.

    Thomas Dulorme - A natural WW, draining himself down to 140, got manhandled and stopped by Luis Carlos Abregu, best result beforehand, barely edging Karim Mayfield and Hank Lundy. One of the glassiest chins in the sport when in against punchers. At best, a high level journeyman. Best result post fight, a draw against Jessie Vargas.

    Jeff Horn - Even though I picked Horn to beat Pac and I think he did, he barely pulled it off and was seconds away from being TKO'd. But let's be honest, that fight took a hell of a lot out of him. He barely made weight for his next fight and went life and death with Gary Corcoran. Was drained beyond belief for the Crawford match, and immediately went up to 154, where he basically became a punching bag.

    Felix Diaz - His claims to fame heading into the match against Crawford is that he got stiffed against Lamont Peterson in a 7-5 type fight and barely eked out a wins over Granados and Vasquez. Immediately following the loss to Bud he got absolutely ragdolled by and lost to Chia Santana. He fought once more and retired.

    D Level
    Kell Brook - The Shell of Kell, boiled down to make WW for the first time in 3 1/2 years. WIn not worth much. The version Bud faced was D Level. Same goes for.....

    Amir Khan - Been through the ringer so many times it wasn't funny. The fact that most didn't want the fight even made because they feared for Amir's health, is all you need to know.

    Julius Indongo - Definition of a one hit wonder, and since Troyanovsky kind of sucks, how big of a hit was it? Great, he outboxed Burns, who hasn't? Since Bud mangled him, he's settled into the role of being a pisspoor easily TKO'd pathetic journeyman of the lowest order. His fall from grace has been next level horrific.

    John Molina Jr. - I love John's moxie, but the man couldn't box his way out of a paper bag. Sure he's tough as nails, gave Matthysse hell, outboxed Provodnikov and Figueroa, but got robbed, but the man got schooled by Mickey Bey for 9 rounds and was schooled by Soto and Broner.

    Dierry Jean - Never was, best showing, being dominated by Lamont Peterson. Stay busy fight.

    Ray Beltran - Roider, and at best, a tough high level journeyman and overachiever. Lost to almost everyone he was supposed to lose to and only won against unproven KO artists who like to brawl.

    Ricky Burns - Tough as shoe leather and hard as nails, but I mean, he was coming off of a broken jaw and gift draw over Beltran and went on to be dominated by Zlaticanin, Figueroa, Indongo, Relikh and Crolla. Let's put it this way. He's not a master boxer.
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Inoue
    Since I'm fairly well versed in the lower divisions, I can say unequivocally, he has one of the best resumes in the sport. To date Inoue is the first and in some cases only man to.. stop the vast majority of his opponents.


    B Level
    Nonito Donaire - Stopped in the division he was known for, so it counts for far more. Rigo couldn't do that. Nonito was fresh off great wins over Burnett, Young, Gaballo and Oubaali. This was a revitalized inspired late career surge version of Donaire. More B+.

    Stephon Fulton - While a bit overrated, Still, he had wins over Brandon Figueroa (controversial), Angelo Leo, Arnold Khegai, Paulus Ambunda, Joshua Greer Jr, Isaac Avelar. More like B-.

    Jason Moloney - Went on to rack up decent wins over Palicte, Astrolabio, Kaikanha and Greer. Had great showing against Rodriguez. Universally known as the good Moloney brother.

    Emmanuel Rodriguez - Coming off of wins over Butler and Moloney, went on to take Gary Antuanne Russell's 0. Got big time robbed against Gaballo. A very skilled incredibly smooth operator.

    Juan Carlos Payano - Stopped him in 1, something it took Nery 9 rounds to do later. Payano robbed of D. Roman win. Had wins over Rau'shee Warren and Anselmo Moreno. Brings a rugged brawling style, which Inoue never got to experience. Because he KO'd him with the first shot that landed

    Omar Narvaez - Stopped him, something Donaire, Seda, Orucuta, Potapov, Carmona, Zaleta, Liriano and Tete couldn't accomplish. Because Omar beat all but 2 of them. Long time divisional stalwart, who knows how to survive and gives his opponent's fits. Inoue never even allowed him to establish a rhythm.

    Jamie McDonnell - Stopped him, something Kameda, Ceja, Solis, Medina, Jamoye or Hall couldn't accomplish. All damned impressive wins for McDonnell. The good McDonnell twin.

    Ryoichi Taguchi - Tough as nails, has wins over Milan Melindo, Luis De La Rosa, Albert Rossel, Landaeta, Barrera, and got robbed against Budler and Canizales. At the time, one of the top talents below Flyweight. One of the few to go the distance with The Monster.



    C Level
    Kohei Kono - Long time rugged journeyman, Inoue was the first to KO him, something Concepcion, Kameda, Tso, Solis and even Moloney legitimately couldn't accomplish. Best win, retiring Koki Kameda in the US.

    Paul Butler - A vastly improved slicker version he reduced to running and surviving, coming off of impressive win over Jonas Sultan. Inoue is the only man to KO him other than Tete.


    D Level
    Ricardo Rodriguez - Stopped him, something Carmona, Quijano, Lozano, C. Narvaez and E. Rodriguez couldn't accomplish.

    Yoan Bloyeux - So so journeyman, stopped only once in 46 matches, a feat even Carl Frampton couldn't accomplish.

    Antonio Nieves - In reality, the first to beat him, he was robbed against Potapov. A. Santiago stopped him since.

    Aran Dipaen - Mostly a stay busy fight, but he's a tough as nails journeyman, with great survival instincts.

    Michael Dasmarinas - Stopped him for the first time in 10 years, coming off of career best win and performance against Guerfi.

    Adrian Hernandez, Crison Omayao, Samartlek Kokietgym, Petchbarngborn Kokietgym and David Carmona, who are all top tier fringe contenders and journeymen, who only lose to the best in the division.



    Usyk

    A Level

    Anthony Joshua x2 - Already said it all earlier.

    Mairis Briedis - Scored brutal one punch KO win over Charr, brutalized Durodola, destroyed Glowacki. Dominant wins over Huck, Dorticos, Mann, and close but clear win over Perez. Skill wise, one of the top fighters in the sport. Sure, he probably should've lost to Gevor, but so should Wlodarczyk. Gevor is also one of the most underrated boxers in the sport. Yes he lost to Opetaia. But even that was debatable, it should've been a draw, and let's be honest, he won the war, literally mutilating and mangling the face of the young Aussie, who hasn't fought since. Jai looked like the Elephant Man after Mairis got through with him

    B Level
    Murat Gassiev - Murderous puncher, destroyed and retired Jordan Shimmell, dominated Denis Lebedev, brutally KO'd Diablo Włodarczyk and Yunier Dorticos. Moved up to Heavyweight, has barely broken a sweat, KO'd all four opponents he's faced fairly early and easily. It's a pity that injuries and being robbed of his confidence by Usyk has effected him so badly.

    Michael Hunter - Before they fought, he only had wins over Isaiah Thomas and Jerry Forrest, after they fought, he went on to takes the 0's of Sergey Kuzmin, Martin Bakole, stop Kiladze, Ustinov and Maldonado. Then get robbed with a draw against Povetkin a match he clearly won. Sadly has stagnated since then and struggled with Forrest in a rematch. But the version Usyk fought was a beast.

    Tony Bellew - Sure, Bellew has been the butt of many jokes, because he's an ass.... but aside from his losses to Stevenson and Cleverly, both of which are forgivable. As a Cruiserweight, he was an absolute beast. Picking up wins over Makabu, when it mattered, Masternak when it mattered. Avenged his loss to Clev, beat Brudov, BJ Flores, and David Haye times 2. This was a revitalized and reborn Bellew. Usyk ended his career.

    Dereck Chisora - Sure the man has a ton of losses, but he was also coming into that match with a head of steam, with wins over. Price, Szpilka, Gashi, Takam and let's be honest, he was robbed against Whyte and robbed against Parker. He also lost to both of them as well. Then he avenged his loss to Pulev. If you don't belong at HW, Del Boy will find you out.

    Krzysztof Glowacki - At the time, he was coming off of two impressive victories, TKOing Huck and ending his long time reign as Cruiserweight kingpin and beating USS Cunningham, who'd been on a hell of a roll up until then. Akso has a notable stoppage victory over the very underrated Matty Askin. Went on to lose a few times, but also rack up a few more decent wins, the one over Maxim Vlasov the most notable. Win over Glowacku hasn't aged gracefully, but Usyk and Briedis ruined him as a fighter.

    Marco Huck - Having him at B Level is probably controversial. But even after losing to Glowacki and Briedis, he was also coming off of two fairly impressive wins over Dmytro Kucher and Ola Afolabi. Long time Cruiserweight kingpin, notoriously robbed of being the man to rightfully take the 0 of Povetkin, beat a who's who over the previous decade, although his win over Lebedev and Arslan were a bit shady. Still a top fighter who isn't close to easy to beat. Moved up to HW, won both matches.

    Thabiso Mchunu - Sure, he'd been KO'd by Makabu, but he'd also UD'd Durodola and Eddie Chambers, KO'd Bolotniks, and went on a hell of a run, dominating Thomas Oosthuizen, Denis Lebedev who retired afterward, and taking the 0 of top amateur Evgeny Tishchenko. Most recently robbed blind in his split decision loss in his rematch against Makabu. This win is aging like a fine wine.

    Joe Joyce - Sure it was a semi-pro, but also right before he turned pro. It was also a dominant one sided showing against the future Silver Medalist and absolute beast at Heavyweight after turning pro.


    So yea.... based on name recognition, in the flashy divisions, Bud's resume seems impressive. But take a closer look, and that illusion quickly begins to fall apart. Especially when you take into consideration their accomplishments before and after Bud's victory over them. But Inoue's resume, is filled with several prime opponents sitting atop their divisions, not also rans or has beens and ironically, the only has been he faced Donaire, was in the middle of one of the more incredible late career resurgences we've seen in recent times. One that was a hell of a lot more with it and sharp than say... Errol Spence Jr. Regardless, the vast majority of his opponents haven't been compromised in some way and most he's been the smaller man moving up and dominating. As far as Usyk goes, at the time of his run at Cruiserweight, that division was easily one of the most impressive in the sport. With a murderer's row of undefeated beasts, fresh off of dispatching other undefeated beasts in the WBSS. To win that tournament, like Usyk and Inoue did theirs, were truly notable accomplishments, and ATG material, much like Andre Ward winning the Super Six a few years earlier. Accomplishments that should not be overlooked with callous indifference by most casual fans. Sure, Bud passes the eye test and is one of the current greats, but at best, his two standout wins, are over two guys with both feet out of the door and not one of his wins have aged gracefully. Inoue and Usyk on the other hand, most of theirs have, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Because they've faced most of their opponents in their primes and with zero asterisks.
     
  4. DramaShow

    DramaShow 19 banned Full Member

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    I have Inoue at 1, Usyk at 2, and Crawford at 3. These are the top 3 and are interchangeable. No arguments whatever the order is as long as they are in the top 3. Pound for Pound is a pretty much meaningless and pointless concept though that we shouldn’t get too worked up over.

    If Usyk does beat Fury, he should be 1 on everyone’s list and that can’t be argued.

    My issue with Pound for Pound is, how important are historical achievements? Do they outweigh the fighter’s recent performances and activity over the last couple of years? If so, is there an argument for Canelo or Estrada to be in the top 3?
     
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  5. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You had me at, "Usyk should be P4P #1."
     
  6. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Excellent work as per usual.

    I was listening to the Sky Ringside Toe2Toe podcast yesterday and one of the regulars on there ex-pro Gary Logan who is a really nice guy had Twink at #3 on his P4P list and when the host asked him why he didn't have Usyk at 3 instead he tried to diminish the quality of Usyk's opposition. And then in his next breath he cited Rolly as a quality win for Twink, saying that Rolly is huge and would cause anyone problems. I kid thee not :lol: He's a self-admitted Twink fan but that's the kind of insanity we're dealing with here.
     
  7. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    I think we have a different idea of the concept of pound for pound. To me there are two different versions of P4P. Among retired fighters P4P relates to how good their careers were and how big or important their achievements were and the quality of fighters they lost to or defeated.

    Among active boxers it's about who is the best boxer right now and has shown it recently and in the not too distant past. For the totality of their careers I have no problem agreeing that Usyk has had a fantastic career and may well be the best P4P fighter of this era. As far as who the best boxer currently is, I think Inoue and Crawford have looked and performed considerably better than Usyk in the three and a half years since he became a heavyweight. It's hard for me to consider Usyk as the top pound for pound boxer right now or since 2020.
     
  8. vast

    vast Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Solid analysis. I tend to agree with you in that Usyks accomplishments are not widely appreciated since he is not an American and he has primarily fought in Europe, where he did not receive a lot of recognition across the pond. I agree that the CW Division he won the WBSS was great and IMO was the best in the Divisions existence. I have no problem with him at #1.
     
  9. Manfred

    Manfred Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Crawford is P4P #1, no matter how yall try and cook the books.
     
  10. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    P4P is a load of tosh

    Usyk has beat anyone and everyone put in front of him. No demands. No waiting for money. No home advantage. Usyk is the best fighting man in boxing next to Fury.
     
  11. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

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    he beats fury he will prob move to number 1.
     
  12. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg @paulmillsfitness banned Full Member

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    Age is the only thing that excludes Usyk from the number 1 spot. Unfortunately, he is sliding away from his peak now. COVID and pointless negotiations have robbed us of seeing another half a dozen Usyk performances.
     
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  13. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's damn close between Usyk and Crawford for me, even in the Top 10 P4P thread, I listed Bud top then explained why Usyk should be on top, because of his resume. It's so close, I can make my mind up in the same post lol.

    But I agree Usyk should be on top, Crawford just below, but it's damn close and Usyk beating Dubois does nothing for his resume, if Crawford can back this Spence win up with a couple of good wins like Ennis and then Jermell at 154 then I'd put him over Usyk. But then if Usyk then beats Fury if they actually fight then he takes the top spot for me again.
     
  14. FastSmith7

    FastSmith7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I actually agree now, I had Crawford number 1 after Spence but upon reflecting, Usyk is just a more skilled boxer.

    Usyk is now fighting men 15-20% heavier, giving up 3-4 inches of height and putting in dominant performances + going by eye test, Usyk is just the most skilled boxer on the planet behind his mate Lomachenko.

    For me it is
    1. Usyk
    2. Crawford
    3. Inoue
     
  15. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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