Why Oleksandr Usyk Should Be P4P Number 1 Over Both Terence Crawford & Naoya Inoue.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Aug 2, 2023.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    You've exposed nothing you oddball. For a relatively lengthy period of time, every match PBC darling Danny Garcia was involved with was a split decision or a majority decision. That's pretty much common knowledge and carries zero weight whatsoever. My scorecard for Thurman-Garcia is far from egregious. Check the RBR, the average score was 116-112 with a few 117-111 for Thurman. A handful of 115-113. Most of them were from the people that picked Danny Garcia to win. There was nothing remotely controversial about that victory. Thurman schooled him on the back foot, whereas Spence walked him down and won on the front foot. The two fight nothing alike so it's pretty much pointless to compare them and their efforts. However, once upon a time slickness used to impress people on this site and was valued just as highly as aggression. But somewhere along the way the Mayweather fanboys morphed into Pacquiao fanboys, after all Spence fights a hell of a lot more like Manny than Floyd.

    I had to write a wall of text tearing down Crawford's resume to lay out an open and shut case to undermine the legion of assholes like you who were invariably going to come here to attempt to discredit it, in advance. See, unlike you I'm actually thorough. You have no leg to stand on, you're not making a good argument that Crawford has the better resume. Now you're resorting to trying to discredit me because I said Thurman who beat Danny 116-112 did as good of a job as Spence, who beat Danny 116-112. How about a different tact? Thurman was the guy that took the 0 of Danny Garcia back when he was still prime and actually give a ****. Spence beat a partially retired disinterested going through the motions Danny Garcia by roughly the same margin, who'd been dealing with mental health issues after losing his 0 to Thurman and being schooled by Porter, who completely lost his fire and mojo. So ultimately who has the better win of the two? Clearly Keith Thurman does.
     
  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    I do have a leg to stand on: both the majority of fans and the official scorecards thought Spence looked more impressive against Danny than Thurman did. You're not just in the minority, you're delusional. First you take credit away from Crawford tearing down his resume (by your own admission, good job), then you tear down the resume of Spence for good measure. You don't think I can't see right through that...? :lol:

    Nothing you wrote was an open and shut case. Crawford was arguably ALREADY p4p #1 BEFORE Spence. The p4p list is a "what have you done for me lately" thing. Crawford beat an undefeated, unified Spence who was on many p4p lists (whether you accept that or not). Usyk beating a weaker, less confident Joshua coming off a loss won't suddenly knock Crawford down from his p4p position even if for the sake of argument you didn't think much of Spence. Do you get it now?
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    So, did you do an extensive poll and interview fans the world over to come to this conclusion?:lol: Last time I checked that wasn't one of the most vexing and highly debated topics in the sport. Thurman fought the fresher and hungrier undefeated Danny Garcia. A fact no one can dispute. Spence fought a Danny with 2 L's who was disinterested in the sport and going through the motions. Yet still performed against him in terms of rounds won in a similar manner to both Thurman and Porter. Of course all three of them perform differently. Spence with pressure, Thurman off the back foot and Porter with ambushes. All three had similar level of success with their approaches. I'm not sure what isn't computing here for you. There's nothing remotely delusional about that, the only one who's delusional is you for thinking it's delusional.

    Is what I did tearing down a resume or simply a thorough, honest and fair assessment? If you're an easily triggered fan like yourself, it's going to look like the former but for everybody else it's the latter.

    Crawford has long had one of the shittiest resumes in the sport in terms of ranked P4P fighters. No amount of spin from you is going to change that. Especially the newest "what have you done for me lately thing" line of bull**** reasoning. AJ was not coming off of the loss he was coming off of two wins, and more than obvious looked far more impressive than the post Usyk version we're seeing now. He certainly wasn't drained, compromised and potentially brain damaged shell of a human being that Spence clearly was, that most of the fanboys seem to be in denial of, when most of the trainers are not. Now I'm very sorry that you don't follow the sport very closely and don't seem to be aware of anybody at Cruiserweight and the level they were operating on when Usyk beat them. Usyk's resume is unquestionably superior, both before and after the Joshua win. This whole debate is reminiscent of the Chocolatito P4P #1 debate going on a few years back. All of the casuals are in love with the glamor division Welterweight, whereas the hardcores, who know what they're talking about a hell of a lot more than the casuals, we're not as distracted by a shiny things, false perceptions or masturbatory commentator hyperbole, and offer up a far more fair, balanced and accurate assessment of the sport and everything within it. Because we follow every aspect of it not just the glamour divisions. You're as transparent as they come and everyone can see through you. You're simply wrong and are increasingly sounding like the delusional one. Do you get it now?
     
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  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    So Garcia having 2 losses with less interest in the sport is a bigger nerf than Spence's car crash? Do you expect me to buy this absurd narrative? Lmao. Nobody clearly outboxed Garcia as convincingly as Spence did, and he did it with no tune ups after a serious car crash. No amount of downplaying and narrative spinning changes that. You are absolutely delusional claiming Thurman did better than Spence. I know you know boxing so I can only assume you're either trolling or desperately trying to push an absurd narrative and that isn't going to work on me.

    I've seen people on other forums react to Thurman vs Garcia and plenty thought Garcia won. I've been on boxing forums for quite some time now. There were even memes saying "Run Time" Thurman.

    Easily triggered? Not at all, I'm just good at smelling bullcrap and agendas. I can easily use the exact same double standards and criteria you're using to make Usyk look like a hype job and make Crawford look like Sugar Ray Robinson. :lol:

    What have you done for me lately is EXACTLY how many people do p4p lists. You don't bring up fights from 3-5 years ago and put priority on that over the current year. CURRENTLY Crawford is undisputed, Usyk is not. CURRENTLY Usyk's last win was rematching Joshua, a guy he already beat, and Crawford beat an undefeated, unified Spence. CURRENTLY Usyk has been inactive and is only just now figuring Daniel Dubious. Beating a guy you already beat IS NOT going to convince me you're above a guy who JUST became undisputed beating ANOTHER guy in the p4p list.

    Do you get it now? Crawford has the superior win this year, by a mile, and to even dare suggest rematching Anthony Joshua is above beating Spence is pure comedy. You're not even sticking to your own criteria, you realize you messed up right? You said Spence's win over Garcia is inferior to Thurman's because Garcia had 2 losses when he fought Spence. HOW MANY LOSSES DID JOSHUA HAVE WHEN USYK BEAT HIM IN THE REMATCH???
     
  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    You're absolutely deranged. Spence was a shell of a man when he fought Crawford, you know it, but you're in denial. If you thought that was a 100% healthy specimen standing across the ring. Then you need some serious help. If you can't see with your own two eyes that the version of AJ that Usyk fought both times, was more dialed in, sharper, more accurate, less lethargic, had better punch resistance, better balance, better footwork, more mentally focused than Errol Spence. Then you're hopeless and it's pointless arguing with a mental patient like you. Clearly you're very emotionally invested in all of this and this discussion has you all hot and bothered. So you obviously lack objectivity. So nothing you say should be taken at face value, and based on the lack of likes your posts are receiving, it's pretty obvious no one is.

    And wow, you mean.... they both had two losses!!!! You got me!:lol: Wait... no, you don't. It wasn't the two losses, many have far more than two losses, and still hand in top tier performances. It's the two losses of Danny's, combined with the inactivity, depression and lack of interest. Pre-losing to Thurman, Danny was one of the more active fighters in the sport, fighting 2, sometimes 3 times a year. Post lost to Thurman, Danny has fought 7 times in 7 years. Clearly his heart isn't in it any more. The mother****er took a year and a half off after he fought Spence, and decided to move up to 154, hoping that could explain his streak of lackluster performances. Both his performance against Redkach and Spence was flat and uninspired, as was his pisspoor effort against Benavidez. That cannot be said about AJ going into the first match against Usyk. He looked sharp as a tack in the rematch with Ruiz, and dominated Pulev with relative ease.

    Also, there's no set of rules or some universal standard on how you're supposed rank fighters P4P, everyone has their own criteria they utilize. So spare me with that bull****. You're merely choosing to believe, by way of being totally irrational and in denial, not even listening to countless trainers who said Spence wasn't all there for that match. Because that's what you want to believe. We're not going to agree or convince each other of anything, and I highly doubt you'll even agree to disagree.... so just don't waste your breath responding to me.
     
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  6. bjl12

    bjl12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    https://www.eyeonthering.com/boxing/danny-garcia-vs-keith-thurman

    Indeed average fan scores were 116-112 for Keith. Pretty terrible split decision outcome but as you suggest that was par for Danny's fights (see Lamont Peterson and Mauricio Herrera).

    Crawford does have a better resume than Usyk and I'm open to having a legitimate debate without childish antics. Usyk has been impressive for sure but Crawford has been more dominant across more weight divisions against arguably better competition without ever having a controversial win.
     
  7. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Crawford on Joseph Rogan the other day

    Crawford: ''Ya'll need more weight classes'' (in MMA)

    ''When you're talking about lightweight... then you're going from 155 to 170?! Wooh!'' *Laughs in disbelief*

    Joseph Rogan: ''How about 185 to 205?''

    Crawford: ''That's what I'm saying''

    This content is protected
     
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  8. The Phenom

    The Phenom Pretty Handsome Full Member

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    Crawford’s ‘D level’ competition are considerably more formidable than Inoue’s D level competition.
     
  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Post the evidence Spence was a shell of himself. Doctor's notes, statement from trainer, anything. Not you speculating. Spence isn't even making excuses.

    Idc what condition you think Spence or AJ were in. Usyk beating a guy he ALREADY BEAT isn't going to convince me he's above Crawford. That doesn't make any sense no matter how you try to spin it. LMFAO.

    You make all these excuses for Danny but, according to you, Joshua wasn't depressed and a shell of himself when he fought Usyk the 2nd time? LMFAO. Joshua was mentally unhinged and lost his confidence after the Ruiz loss. The first Usyk loss just added more fuel to the fire. What sport are you watching? You think the Joshua coming off a loss with no belts was "mentally sharp" and competent going into the Usyk rematch?

    You are now hiding behind the "subjectivity" argument because you just want this conversation to be over. I have NEVER in over 15 years of watching boxing and talking to fans/trainers/forum posters say that you can put a guy who beat someone they already beat (coming off a loss with no belts) to become p4p #1. Not once have I seen that happen until your goofy thread. Explain yourself! We BOTH KNOW the only reason you're using this bizarro-land criteria is so that you can put Usyk #1 based on doing nothing this year ahead of Crawford who just became undisputed for the 2ND TIME.
     
  10. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich A lot of people have pools Full Member

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    I think the argument isn't that AJ 2 made Usyk p4p number 1 but instead that Usyk was already pfp number 1 before AJ 2 and no one has a resume good enough to surpass Usyk's at the moment. Not saying I agree or disagree with this argument, just saying that you seem to be misunderstanding it.
     
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  11. CasualYank

    CasualYank New Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, this thread dont look so good now after it took Usyk 5 minutes to get up from a clean bodyshot from an absolute scrub in Dubois.

    Crawford, Monster

    everybody else
     
  12. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk is #1.

    He knocked out a guy who had never been knocked out cleanly before, and did it with a jab.

    #1
     
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  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    He wrote like 3 paragraphs trying super hard to convince everyone AJ vs Usyk 2 was this amazing achievement so that's why I kept addressing that. It was a big part of his argument.

    My view is that a p4p list is based on what a fighter has done lately. Bringing up Usyk's achievements half a decade ago at cruiserweight is irrelevant. His 2 most recent wins are over Joshua. First fight was decent since Joshua only had 1 loss and had championship belts while Usyk was challenging himself moving up in weight. I gave him lots of credit for that. 2nd fight does nothing in regards to p4p rankings since he's rematching a guy he already beat and Usyk is a fully fledged HW now. That's all I'm saying. He's acting like I'm crazy for saying a win over an undefeated, unified Spence is a superior win because of his (unproven) claims that Spence was damaged goods (which isn't Crawford's fault).
     
  14. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    So... the ref didn't call a knockdown is your big argument. Yeah, just like what happened with Kavaliauskas. Spare me Fury dickrider.
     
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  15. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This may have been the best win of Usyk's career, or at least at heavyweight.

    AJ 1 was nearly as good of a win for Usyk because he almost stopped AJ.

    This was a shutout with 2 knockdowns and a KO of a guy who had never been legit stopped, and whose power Usyk had to take seriously.

    AND he had to overcome the low blow to do it.

    Masterclass.

    Usyk is #1. I hope Fury will step up now.
     
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