Why Oleksandr Usyk Should Be P4P Number 1 Over Both Terence Crawford & Naoya Inoue.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Aug 2, 2023.


  1. TheShellofKell

    TheShellofKell Nakatani Future P4P #1 Full Member

    1,255
    1,508
    Sep 3, 2021
    :beer-toast1:
     
    columbo, CST80, McGrain and 2 others like this.
  2. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,795
    1,471
    Nov 18, 2021
    The case would be so obviously in Usyk's favour that there would be no point arguing against it.

    Usyk's problem is his age and lack of fights. Both Crawford and Inoue have more fights in them as opposed to Usyk's three (at best).

    If Usyk beats Fury then nothing Crawford or Inoue could do to take the #1 spot. Crawford is a full fledged WW, he will never face the absurd physical challenge that Usyk would against Fury.

    Hell, Usyk beating Fury would be greater than Rumble in the Jungle.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,986
    48,067
    Mar 21, 2007
    I think I'd agree with that, or the spirit of that at least. People would argue. But yeah, Usyk beating Fury would be incredible in a way that Usyk beating AJ really wasn't. Speaking for myself I thought of Usyk as a heavy favourite for that fight and had done for about a decade. I was so firmly in the Usyk to beat AJ camp that I was actually disturbed by how difficult Usyk found it second time around (loved the fight though).

    AJ is doing this huge amount of p4p lifting in this argument, and it doesn't make much sense to me - but Fury, for all the opposite reasons, I think yeah, it makes Usyk a pretty clean argument. But also massively powerful for Usyk would be beating anothrt ranked heavy, a top five guy, someone like Wilder or Chang. I don't think he needs Fury to become the p4p #1, a wicked performance against one of these would throw him right into the mix. Worth pointing out that it is very likely that Doubois and AJ - fighters that are made for him - will have been Usyk's only opponents for 3 years by the time he gets out again. Worse, the last time he met a top-ten fighter in any division that wasn't AJ was 2018.
     
  4. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

    47,851
    27,806
    Oct 23, 2011
    People are going to dig into Usyk when Fury beats him.

    Sad really. Fury literally the greatest heavyweight of all times beats you and you are then worthless. cast to the shadows.
     
  5. Stiff Jab

    Stiff Jab Despiser of Super-Middleweights Full Member

    5,109
    7,702
    Jan 7, 2019
    First off. I love the intelligent analysis of Inoue's record that people always poopoo on. I'd rate both Kono and Donaire a bit higher as Donaire went on a resurgence with quality wins both before the 1st Inoue fight and immediately after, while Kono was just coming off of losing his world title, arguably at the peak of his (admitted limited but still world-title level) powers. I think you are also overrating AJ a tad as I don't think there are any quality heavyweights other than Fury and Usyk, but he's still the best of the rest, and you beat the guys who are in front of you.

    Usyk's run at Cruiserweight where he became undisputed of the best cruiserweight division in that weight class' history only to become the unified heavyweight champion should be p4p worthy. Unfortunately, he's been inactive in recent months and the Fury fight has fallen through. Not his fault and it stinks to ding someone for something that isn't his fault, but he's been stagnant and will fight Daniel Dubois next; Bud and Inoue just finished off the best/perceived best guy in their divisions and they weren't close. Pound for pound being silly, to begin with aside, it's very much a "what have you done for me lately" list.
     
    CST80 likes this.
  6. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,713
    4,402
    Dec 5, 2010
    I think people underestimate how difficult it is for a 220lb man to move like Usyk does. If you scale anyone up in size they get slower, throw fewer punches, and can absorb fewer punches. Usyk is different. That's why he's so special. The fact that you can recognize the same subtle movement, speed, volume, etc. in him as these tiny guys is a testament to his greatness. He has the resume to back it all up and has done it all on the road.

    P4P is a joke, but I've got Usyk -> Crawford ------------> the rest.
     
    FastSmith7 and CST80 like this.
  7. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    245,110
    240,477
    Nov 23, 2013
    ;):sisi1
     
    TheShellofKell likes this.
  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,236
    131,465
    Jul 21, 2009
    And let's get another thing straight here right quick

    Usyk didn't turn pro until 2 months before his 27th birthday

    Inoue and Crawford turned pro at 19 and 20 y/o respectively

    That's a freaking huge percentage of his prime years left in the amateurs

    But during his time spent in the amateurs, among other things, he won

    Olympic gold
    World Amateur gold
    European gold


    And he was robbed in his first Olympics against the eventual silver medalist and there would've been a very high chance of him being a 2 x Olympic gold medalist had he not been robbed

    That's part of his overall CV too and it's even more evidence of his greatness and he didn't even take up the sport until he was 15 y/o

    An we've not only seen him toy with and dominate giants way bigger, heavier, longer, stronger, and more powerful than him in their backyards we've seen him do it in the WSB too and some of those giants were the best SHWs in the world not bums. Fighters who are 3 x world amateur gold medalists, Olympic silver medalists, or ranked in the top 10 at that weight, a weight he had never fought at before.

    The others have never done this nor even close amateur or pro. That's the definition of P4P greatness and skills

    This content is protected


    And like I said, Usyk is fighting another murderous punching giant next and even though Spence and Fulton were world champions and Dubois is a regular champ (which would still make him a real world champion by Twink fans rules) it's a far more dangerous assignment for Usyk giving the huge size disparity and savage power Dubois possesses than Spence and Fulton were for Crawford and Inoue respectively.

    Neither were of them were realistically in any danger of getting knocked out in their last fights or remotely in any danger of getting euthanized with one punch. Usyk is running a gauntlet of death. He's playing chicken on a minefield facing all these legit bangers and murderous punchers all the time. One wrong move and it's bye bye leg, bye bye face, or bye bye life. You fell me?


    If Spence was way way bigger and heavier than Crawford and punched like Beterbiev and Fulton was way way bigger and heavier than Inoue and punched like Super Boots it would be a very different story and That. Is. What. I. Am. Talking. About. :deal:
     
    VanBasten, CST80 and NullaLexInk like this.
  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,236
    131,465
    Jul 21, 2009
    Me: ''Officer, I would like to report a gigantic explosion

    Police officer: ''Where and when did this happen, sir?''

    Me: ''In CST's Usyk thread just now. I just dropped a huge bomb in it. Right besides the massive craters CST made with his bombs''

    Police officer: ''Thanks, I'll get right on it''
     
    VanBasten and CST80 like this.
  10. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    11,008
    10,037
    Oct 1, 2011
    Kinda difficult for me to call Joshua A level after he was stopped by Ruiz. All A level guys I can think of don't crumble mentally and can adjust mid round. Those are qualities most, if not all A level fighters have IMO. But, I'm sure you'll correct me if you can. LOL
     
  11. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    245,110
    240,477
    Nov 23, 2013
    So... what are you implying? That Mike Tyson wasn't A Level, even though he was beaten by a C Level fighter in Douglas? Are you implying that Lennox Lewis wasn't A Level, because he was beaten by 2 subpar opponents in McCall and Rahman? Are you saying Wlad wasn't A Level, after he was beaten by 3 opponents that he had no business whatsoever in losing to, in Brewster, Puritty and Sanders?

    Corrected.:sisi1
     
    VanBasten, NullaLexInk and Serge like this.
  12. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    11,008
    10,037
    Oct 1, 2011
    Good point. I guess with AJ, I don't have the luxury of hindsight to gauge how he bounced back like the guys you mentioned. AJ did beat Ruiz easily in the rematch and then got comprehensively beaten twice by Usyk. So, at this point, I don't see AJ as A level. You also need to realize that, mentally he may not have been same after the first Ruiz fight. I think Ruiz beat the A level AJ.
     
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,236
    131,465
    Jul 21, 2009
    AJ is at worse the 2nd best HW of this generation and he does have the best resume at HW of this generation

    In chronological order

    Kevin Johnson
    Whyte
    Martin
    Wlad
    Breazeale
    Molina
    Wlad
    Takam
    Parker
    Povetkin
    Fat Andy
    Fat Andy
    Pulev
    Usyk
    Usyk
    Franklin

    We all saw the problems Prince Charlie Martin caused the future of the division Jared Anderson last time out, hurting him pretty badly numerous times and taking him the distance, and Martin is one of AJ's worst wins at the world level. AJ smoked Martin


    In just 71 fights in total amateur and pro he's won Olympic gold (undeserved), World Amateur silver, become a 2 x three-belt unified champion and fought

    Cammarelle x 2
    Majidov
    Joyce
    Savon
    Dychko
    Nistor
    Zhang
    Frazer Clarke
    Whyte
    Wallin x 2
    Kuzmin
    Pfeifer
    Arjaoui

    Usyk x 2
    Wlad
    Povetkin
    Parker
    Fat Andy x 2
    Whyte
    Pulev
    Takam
    Martin
    Franklin
    Kevin Johnson
    Breazeale
    Molina


    And AJ has fought lots of punchers amateur and pro and only ever been dropped or stopped by big punchers


    Yes AJ got stopped by Fat Andy in the first fight but these things happen in the HW division. Lewis got KTFO by a crack addict and Rahman. Tyson got knocked out by Douglas. Wlad got knocked out by Sanders and stopped against Purrity and Brewster. Louis against Schmeling etc.


    And something was clearly not right with AJ going into that fight which was plain to see from his ring walk. But he avenged the loss in his next fight and that's a fact.
     
    VanBasten and NullaLexInk like this.
  14. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,321
    3,330
    Apr 15, 2007
    You can’t fight Dubois and be at the number one spot after the performances Crawford and Inoue just put out there.

    Also Fury’s wins over Wilder are better then wins over AJ. Usyk wants to be a Heavyweight then he needs to be judged as a Heavyweight.
     
    James Hudson likes this.
  15. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,282
    1,084
    Sep 10, 2005
    No problem with Usyk at the top. He's got the best opposition. I felt his work at cruiser was enough for #1 when everyone was high on Canelo.

    Problem is, Dubois doesn't pardon the inactivity. It remains a three horse and there will only be a clearcut king when two of them lose.