Why Oleksandr Usyk Should Be P4P Number 1 Over Both Terence Crawford & Naoya Inoue.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Aug 2, 2023.


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  1. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Both and Usyk and Crawford are superb talents. Usyk is p4p though. It's simple. He's ran through the better fighters.
     
    tinman, Aug 3, 2023
    tinman, Aug 3, 2023
    #46
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  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    You could make an argument that the reason they've looked better is because they've been facing lesser opposition? In the three years since Usyk moved to HW. Inoue has faced.... Donaire x2, Moloney, Butler, Dasmarinas, Dipean and Fulton. While Bud has faced.... Kavaliauskas, Porter, Avanesyan, Brook and Spence. Now sure, this was a much improved Donaire, but is losing between 3 to 4 rounds off of the old man and had his eye socket broken, something that Usyk would get a pass for? Sure, the Fulton win looks good on paper, but who had he beaten? It was merely a false perception that he was some sort of great fighter. Moloney is average at best, barely did enough to beat Kaikanha and ran like a coward from Astrolabio. Almost going the distance with a guy like Butler, would be seen as a black eye for most. Dipean and Dasmarinas, whoopty doo. Bud beat a phantom of Kell, a phantom of Spence ((it's becoming increasingly obvious that he was badly compromised), Kavaliauskas, who was coming off of two gift against subpar guys like Ray Robinson and Juan Carlos Abreu of all people. As far as Avanesyan is concerned, meh. Then there's Porter, with his shitty training camp and one foot out of the door, who Bud was losing to by roughly 6 rounds on any fair scorecard, at the time of the stoppage. Have those 4 years really been all that impressive?

    Then there's Usyk, fine the Witherspoon match was pitiful, but still around Dipean level. But the win over Chisora, far more impressive than most give him credit for. Sure Chisora has a ton of losses, but like Donaire had been on a roll. Even in the matches Chisora has lost in recent years, barring the one against Fury, he still managed to win between 5 to 6 rounds in many of them. His loss to Kabayel could've been a draw, he was robbed against Whyte and Parker, he was even winning the rematch against Whyte at the time of the stoppage. So if a guy is going life and death with and getting robbed against Top 10 guys in the division, why isn't a win over him considered as impressive? Would wins over Whyte, Parker, Pulev and Kabayel look good on Usyk's resume? Then why doesn't a win over the guy who rightfully beat them all not be equally impressive? Chisora is the Orlando Salido of Heavyweight, and this is a style that gives Usyk fits. Yet he fought the style that troubles him the most, and beat him far more impressively than most, aside from Tyson Fury. Now add to that, that Chisora outweighed him by 40 freaking pounds. As far as AJ goes, I've already laid out a very valid argument as to why a win over him, is worth far more than a win over an unproven guy like Fulton and the corpse of Spence. Beating Chisora is the equivalent of Inoue beating Isaac Cruz, and beating AJ is the equivalent of Crawford beating Canelo.
     
    CST80, Aug 3, 2023
    CST80, Aug 3, 2023
    #47
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  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    AJ beat Ruiz easily in the rematch as you've said. He also viciously KO'd Pulev, a feat only accomplished by Wlad up to that point. That's all the evidence I need to prove that AJ was back in the game and ready to rumble. All you really need to do, is look at just how prepared and how sharp AJ was in both of his losses to Usyk. He performed out of his skin, to the point where he actually impressed me. That version, more than passes the eye test. It's a pity that AJ allowed himself to feel so letdown by those performances that he decided to hook up with a guy like Derrick James, who he has regressed under. He should've stuck with Garcia, that version of AJ, beats almost every HW, not named Usyk, maybe even Fury and Wilder. Seriously though, go back, and only focus on AJ in both of his losses to Usyk, that was perhaps the most impressive version we've seen of AJ to date, and stands as a testament to just how great Usyk really is.
     
    CST80, Aug 3, 2023
    CST80, Aug 3, 2023
    #48
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  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Did people watch Crawford vs Mean Machine and Avanesyan? I did and I saw Mean Machine crack Crawford and drop him and I saw Avanesyan crack Crawford with a right hand over the top and rock him at least once.

    I also saw Fulton crack Inoue with 3 or maybe 4 times with flush right hands, most notably a straight one which snapped his head right back, and a hook round the side of the guard in round 7 IIRC. Fulton has one of the lowest KO% of any champ in the sport (or rather former champ now). Ironically so does Inoue's (who has one of the highest) brother Takuma

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    When Crawford and Inoue lost concentration or made a mistake they got clipped now imagine that mistake was made against huge or murderous punchers who are way bigger and heavier than them and who are huge punchers in a division full of giants they don't belong in.

    Look at some of the punchers Usyk fought at CW too who were his own size or maybe bigger

    And they're skilled fighters not just cavemen with brute force, especially Briedis who has everything

    Gassiev's power is ridiculous and when you have career HWs who've fought everyone like Arreola and numerous other HWs telling you he hit them harder than anyone and it's not exactly the best kept secret he's knocked out numerous highly ranked HWs in the gym it says it all

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    Briedis sparking out a 250lb durable HW out cold on his face in spectacular HL reel fashion with a solitary right uppercut

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    Serge, Aug 3, 2023
    Serge, Aug 3, 2023
    #49
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  5. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    You're right, you could make that argument. That's where our individual judgments come in to play. I respect your judgment and you have always been respectful of me so I am going to assume you respect mine as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
    Fogger, Aug 3, 2023
    Fogger, Aug 3, 2023
    #50
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  6. Stiff Jab

    Stiff Jab Despiser of Super-Middleweights Full Member

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    Oh, you saw Fulton hit Inoue? In rounds Inoue said he left himself open to entice Fulton to come in? Which worked like a charm? Because he rightfully wasn't worried about the power of a non-puncher?

    Well okay then. All the evidence I need to strip him of being number one.
     
    Stiff Jab, Aug 3, 2023
    Stiff Jab, Aug 3, 2023
    #51
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  7. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

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    Usyk is the truth. So, in your estimation. Usyk fought the est version of AJ to date?
     
    Braindamage, Aug 3, 2023
    Braindamage, Aug 3, 2023
    #52
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  8. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Without a doubt, that was the most technically sound version of Anthony Joshua we've seen to date. Especially in the rematch, he was thinking and constantly adjusting his way through that fight. It was perhaps the most high level match we've seen between heavyweights in the last decade.
     
    CST80, Aug 4, 2023
    CST80, Aug 4, 2023
    #53
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  9. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Love how you didn't mention Klitschkos age and layoff when he fought Joshua along with his terrible game plan

    He also got trashed by Ruiz who has done nothing besides that

    Other than that though, yeah Usyk is arguably pfp#1

    However, If Crawford beats Spence again, then beats Charlo and becomes undisputed at 154, then Crawford takes the cake and easily. Usyk would if he beats Fury, but that fight ain't happening anytime soon
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Aug 4, 2023
    MarkusFlorez99, Aug 4, 2023
    #54
  10. DavHQ

    DavHQ Member banned Full Member

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    Usyk is so good he made Fury run scared
     
    DavHQ, Aug 4, 2023
    DavHQ, Aug 4, 2023
    #55
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  11. DavHQ

    DavHQ Member banned Full Member

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    Lol we are talking p4p here so Usyk’s wins at cruiserweight counts , unless you started watching boxing in 2018
     
    DavHQ, Aug 4, 2023
    DavHQ, Aug 4, 2023
    #56
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  12. deadACE

    deadACE Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Here we go again, " my boxer is better than your boxer ". Across division nonsense.

    With all the variables how can comparing boxers across different weight divisions be seen as anything other than nonsensical or mild amusement at best. What it's being used as here is an absolute fact that should not be challenged.

    Comparing HWs in the same era is legit, but is it. Can you compare Joshua and Fury together, yeah ok they both competed at the same time with the same fighters. What about Usyk did he compete over the same period, no, and to some people because of his short time and small number of opponents at HW, he shouldn't be compared with Fury,Joshua etc. So how can he be compared to Inoue many divisions below? Lol

    Let's look at Fulton and Joshua. Both beaten ex champs. Who's the more skilled? Obviously Fulton. Who would win in a fight between Fulton and Joshua. Obviously Joshua. How can you compare what win was better for either Usyk or Inoue. You can't its impossible.

    What's the skillset like at the lower divisions compared to HW. The skillset is massively more advanced at the lower levels. Calling HWs murderous punchers is a non given. Usyk hasn't faced anybody with the skillsets that Inoue faced and Inoue hasn't faced the " murderous punchers" that Usyk has. Can't be compared.

    A mod posted after Crawford and Spence, that Inoue would KO Spence, he even used the words "deadly serious" lol. Explain the mechanics of that fight. Would inoue be taller, heavier, cos if he is then that's not Inoue ffs. Just a stupid comment to make his boxer better than Crawford. Can't be compared.

    A waste of time and energy. Including my post lol
     
    deadACE, Aug 4, 2023
    deadACE, Aug 4, 2023
    #57
  13. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    This. That was AJ in his mid career Lennox/Wlad form. Granted, AJ never ascended to quite that level, but yea, the point remains. He was 32 (which for a HW is 100% primed out) and fully experienced and as good as he ever was or will be.
     
    tinman, Aug 4, 2023
    tinman, Aug 4, 2023
    #58
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  14. Goran_

    Goran_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Well pound for pound is an outdated concept based on a fallacy anyway but for those that do put a lot of stock in it you can scratch Crawford off of it because he starts Camp as a borderline CW :lol: .. that's not fkin P4P.. that's called taking advantage of the 24 hour weigh in loophole and a heavy dose of peds and diuretics. If Crawford and those America grifters were doing what Loma was doing Crawford would be taking on Super middle weights and LHWs. Right now I would say the Japanese kid is the best pound for pound fighter if I had to play that game.. Usyk is too inactive...
     
    Goran_, Aug 4, 2023
    Goran_, Aug 4, 2023
    #59
  15. Goran_

    Goran_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    You can't cook the books on something that doesn't exist.. pound for pound is a fairytale. Crawford whooping on a car crash victim & fellow American short arse proves nothing.
     
    Goran_, Aug 4, 2023
    Goran_, Aug 4, 2023
    #60
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