Why Prime Mike Tyson beats a 70s George Foreman

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mike foreman, Sep 11, 2017.


  1. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    This is part of my why Mike Tyson beats fighter X series. For a frame of reference im referring to Tyson circa 1987-1988.

    1. The gap in skill is quite a gap.The way Foreman fougt Ali was like WTF. He fought Ali similar to how Max Baer fought Primo Carnera except Baer won. It isnt too far fetched to imagine Max fighting Ali the same way Foreman did.

    Foreman a lot of times left himself opened to be countered and had a habit of using his jaw to block punches. It all caught up with him once he fought someone in a position to exploit those errors. A prime Tyson on the other hands was elusive, a great counter puncher and could pick his shots very well. Foreman would struggle greatly to land on Tyson

    I want to make a disclaimer and say Foreman was a greater fighter than Bonecrusher Smith. That said, Foreman wasnt any faster or defensively sound. Tyson would bob, weave, slip and counter like he did fighting Smith. The difference being Foreman probably wouldn't resort to holding and waltzing for 12 rounds just to survive.

    2. Speed. A Tyson/Foreman fight would be about who gets there first with the most. Foreman is not beating Tyson to the punch consistently. As far as handspeed, Tyson is rated along with Ali and Patterson for being one of the most quick handed heavies of all time. Tyson also was much lighter on his feet than Foreman and had clearly superior footwork. Tyson wouldn't come straight ahead like Fraizer, he'd be using angles to get in range. The handspeed difference would leave Tyson with a smorgasboard of counterpunching opportunities. In the Fraizer Foreman rematch, Foreman missed many punches against a very faded Fraizer. Fraizer just didnt have the tools to capitalize on it anymore. Tyson wouldnt have that problem.

    3. Chin. This is a big one. As far as I can tell, many think Foreman will beat Tyson once he just lands a few punches. This is absurd. One, KO'ing Fraizer, Roman and Norton in no way, shape or form automatically means therefore you'll KO a prime Mike Tyson. In the 70s, Foremans best weight was 225 pounds approximately at 6'3. Tysons best weight was 218 at 5'11. Theres this erroneous idea that Foreman would just be towering over Tyson with his shadow just engulfing Tyson and blocking out the sun.

    From reading a lot of posts on Foreman vs Tyson, its easy to walk away with the idea that Foreman was this 7'1 335 pound giant carved out of marble that could bench press a city bus and turn cinderblocks into powder with a single uppercut. Meanwhile Tyson becomes this featherfisted fairy with the punching power of your local high school homecoming princess and the chin thereof. I read on here somewhere that Tysons best left hook would just bounce off of Foremans chin and make him mad. Absurdity!

    Tyson fought and beat bigger punchers than 6'3 225 lbs that had punching power in the same zip code as Foremans.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if anyone disagrees dont just assert it! Back it up with film. If you think Ruddock couldnt hit at least ALMOST as hard as a 70s Foreman, post film of their various knockouts so we can see the result their punches had on their various opponents. And out of Foremans 68 KOs, the vast majority where of the same calibur of opponents that Ruddock, Smith, Bruno etc knocked out on their way up.

    A washed up Tyson took the best bombs of SHW mega puncher Lennox Lewis for 8 rounds. Even if Foreman did land solid a prime Tyson isnt just going to fall over.

    Tysons chin was superior to Lyles, Scott Ledoux, Jimmy Young, Boone Kirkman. None of those guys just fell over as if dead when Foreman hit them the first time. Why would Tyson?

    History shows us that Tyson was never stopped or seriously hurt early. He was only stopped late by fighters who punched in accurate combinations and went out of their way to hit without getting hit.

    Foreman was hurt early as history shows us. Badly staggered by Ali and dropped and badly staggered by Ron Lyle. Neither had the combination of speed, accuracy, punching power and finishing ability Tyson did.

    Thus, if anyone would be in trouble early in a 70s Foreman/80s Tyson matchup, history teaches us that it likely would be Foreman which brings me to my next point

    4. Foreman would have no other options but an early stoppage which is highly unlikely. From the opening bell of round 1 the clock would be ticking. There would be no 10th or 11th round in which Foreman would be throwing combinations. If he gasses out mid rounds against a Mike Tyson on the rampage, he's in serious trouble. There is nothing historically we can point to that gives us any indication that Tyson would be in any early trouble. Perhaps Foreman wobbles Tyson for a few seconds similar to how Bruno did, but that likely would be it. I dont care if he had Fraizers style or not (he didnt) Tyson could take a way better shot, as far as single power punches are concerned.

    My prediction:

    Tyson wins by mid round KO after scoring a knockdown. This includes any version of Tyson up until 1991. Post Rooney Tyson just struggles a little bit more and takes some extra unnecessary punches.

    STAY TUNED FOR "WHY PRIME MIKE TYSON BEATS SONNY LISTON"

    Truthfully if prime Tyson was in the early 70s, Ali would realistically be the only one who could oppose him and have a realistic chance at victory. Before Ali's era, Prime Tyson would rule unopposed as the only one before Ali who could POSSIBLY beat a prime Tyson was Joe Louis and even then, thats up in the air.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  2. rodney

    rodney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not a chance. Forman would not be intimidated. Tyson's chin would melt. And so would his heart.
     
  3. Hayemakers

    Hayemakers Member Full Member

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    Tyson will be uppercutted to death. He might get destoyed faster than Frasier because Frazier had similar qualities but much more heart. Tyson wil stay down after the 1st or 2nd knockdown. 2 rounds. Oh and you say Tyson has beaten men that have similar power to Foreman? Name them please, im in for a laugh.
     
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  4. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    I described above
     
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  5. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Just like Berbick, Williams and company beat Tyson because they werent intimidated?

    What about Foremans chin? Imagine if Tyson replaced Lyle? Jesus Christ.....Tyson was miles superior to Lyle in whatever department you care to name
     
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  6. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    I'd give Tyson an excellent chance vs Foreman as well, for many of the reasons mentioned above. There's a definite recent tendency for fans to downplay Tyson's skills and physical attributes while exaggerating his weaknesses, which badly skews his chances in debates like this. At his best he was a phenomenal athlete and fighter, with enough P4P to beat any boxer in history, certainly enough to make him competitive with a prime Foreman and come out the victor.

    Foreman wouldn't be intimidated by Tyson, but that's no guarantee of victory, and Tyson is unlikely to be intimidated by Foreman, not to such a degree that it'd negatively affect his performance anywise. The fight then comes down to stylistic and physical factors, and while Foreman stylistically has what it takes to control and nullify Tyson's attacks, Tyson has the speed and savagery to get to Foreman and make things very hairy for him indeed.

    Here's how I see both fighters' keys to victory:

    Foreman
    - establish the jab and control of distance
    - keep Tyson moving backwards with constant forward pressure and push offs
    - tie Tyson up when he tries to come inside
    - hit Tyson with uppercuts against the ropes, be aware of counter shots
    - play the long game and let the knockout come if it comes, don't get too wild

    Tyson
    - use constant head movement to prevent Foreman establishing his jab
    - attack aggressively to stop Foreman in his tracks
    - vary shots to catch Foreman out, body to head etc
    - be unpredictable, explode out of crouches, keep own jab pumping
    - target the body constantly
    - don't get frustrated if Foreman doesn't hit the canvas early or tries to hold on

    I think Tyson has a bit too much for Foreman to overcome personally, though I can easily accept and empathise with an argument to the contrary. Foreman may make things difficult for Tyson early on with his size and awkwardness, but sooner or later he's going to let one sneak through his mummy guard or take a vicious counter from a wild missed shot and at that point I think it's the beginning of the end.
     
  7. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    I see what you're saying even in regard to Foreman. I just think its silly for anyone to think a Foreman win is as simple as him arriving into the ring, plodding into Tyson and blasting him out with 2 punches or whatever.

    Especially with the massive skill and speed gap between the two thats so enourmous it isnt funny.

    Then again there are people on this board that seriously think Oscar Bonavena would've given a young Tyson a close, down to the wire, skin of the teeth fight and others who think Jerry Quarry has hope of beating Lennox Lewis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  8. Ronnie Raygun

    Ronnie Raygun Active Member banned Full Member

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    Big George stomps him like a cockroach
    It would have been Joe Frazier part two I agree with Hayemaker after the first two knock downs Tyson wouldnt have gotten up.
     
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  9. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah funny how Ledoux took umpteen clean blows from Foreman before going down but Tyson instantly falls over when Foremans glove touches him

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    But a young Tyson couldnt take AT LEAST THAT???
     
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  10. mike foreman

    mike foreman Member banned Full Member

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    Like he stomped Lyle like a roach? When he ran into a fighter with a solid punch who didnt fall as soon as he touched them he was given the fight of his life.

    A 1991 Tyson would have convincingly pummeled Lyle without going to the canvas. A 1988 Tyson would handle Lyle as easily as he did Berbick or Tubbs and in about the same amount of time.

    And make no mistake, Lyle wasnt boxing and moving and making use of the ring. No he was in their getting hit and trading punches. Foreman may have had a layoff but his power was the same and he was landing cleanly.

    And watch the 2nd Fraizer Foreman fight. Fraizer lasted 5 rounds by giving him a little head movement.

    No way can anyone look at those fights and come away with the logical conclusion that he'd beat a young Mike Tyson

    And if you can please walk me through your logic.
     
  11. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Tyson never ever had a chin problem at any stage of his career. Bombs bounced off him. Even when he didn't want to fight any more his chin still held up under Lewis's monster right, which imo was stronger than Foremans
     
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  12. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    The thing is mate, people look at frazier as a bench mark at how Tyson does, which is stupid. Plus u got D'Amato telling everyone it was suicide....Well, I also think Foreman Ali fight is twisted to suit George to some extent. How Ali went through hell to get the win. At no stage in the fight was Ali not in full command, tieing the apparently stronger man up and blatantly biding his time. Tyson come out like lightning. I see him savaging the bigger man early. Foremans resume outside of frazier and Norton is absolute dog shite
     
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  13. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I've watched prime Foreman train. I've also watched Ali, Shavers, Lyle and Frazier train. I've also watched each of these fighters fight live. I can tell you no one could take prime Foremans punches. He hit like a freight train. He was the only fighter to scare me with how hard he hit. His KO blows were uppercuts and hooks. I do not see any crouching advancing opponent having any chance against him. Walking to Foreman was suicide no matter how good the fighters head movement, no matter how quick, no matter how good his chin. All it would take is one punch to put any hwt on ***** Street and George was a strong finisher. Foreman was much more tough both mentally and physically than Tyson with excellent will to win. George not Tyson would be the favorite in a give and take fight. However I don't see this as a give and take encounter. Tyson attacks early but is faced with a totem pole jab some he slips some he does not. In between the jabs Foreman lands right hooks to Tysons sides that are crippling. Round three a right hand hurts Tyson and Foreman is all over him for several knockdowns. Referee stops the fight with Tyson helpless.
     
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  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mike you are so inexperienced your posts drip of inexperience!

    The Ledoux bout was not prime Foreman. That was the slowed down, relaxed version of Foreman who did not try to kill an opponent with every blow. Note one short uppercut put Ledoux out. Prime Foreman was his bout with Norton. He was champion, supremely confident and at the top of his game. The most powerful puncher I could ever imagine.
     
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  15. Knights107

    Knights107 Member Full Member

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    Obviously this is not end by decision.
    If we look at tyson's weakness, if douglas can then of course foreman too..

    No one stop foreman except Ali.

    I pick foreman. Foreman can KO anyone.
    Look at Frazier I. The most brutal KO.
     
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