Why the Hell do we watch Floyd? One person knows the answer

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by demigawd, Oct 4, 2011.


  1. demigawd

    demigawd Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As some people here know, I often work in boxing circles, so I frequently run into trainers, promoters and other people in-the-know. I'm not a journalist, but when I like to have conversations with people and when something interesting comes up, I talk about it here.

    I had an interesting conversation with a promoter (who shall remain nameless on condition of publishing the comments) yesterday and the topic of Floyd came up. I asked what the formula was for Floyd, given that on paper, he shouldn't be as popular as he is. Boxing isn't as popular as it used to be, Floyd doesn't have an exciting style, he doesn't have a strong ethnic following (african-americans aren't known for being avid boxing fans anymore), and he's lacks the charm, wit, or intimidating mystique that other popular boxers have had in the past. And yet he has broken multiple PPV records and continues to draw near-record numbers even in boxing diminished state. Why is it he's been able to do that while boxers of similar attributes like Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, and James Toney struggled to achieve any modicum of fame or widespread appeal?

    I was expecting the promoter to say something about his undefeated record, or his embracing the role of the brash villain everybody pays to see fail. He did mention those two, but it's the third thing that really got me thinking:

    "With Floyd, some of it is the record and the villain role. A lot of it is targeting and getting fights against people who have a strong following, like Oscar, Hatton, and Gatti and getting noticed by the world. But mainly it's about the storyline. He's done a fantastic job of creating a storyline and selling it. He would fight people boxing insiders know have no chance against him, but he sold it in a way that the public ate it up."

    "Think about some of his PPV fights. How the hell do you sell Baldomir? 'Pretty Risky'. He sold it as him finally taking a risk, and going up against a huge opponent, a middleweight champion who isn't really a middleweight and is only a partial champion. But people didn't know that. They were intrigued. Could this little kid go up in weight against a giant and win? He played up the 'risk' factor to the public, and they wanted to see if he could do it. Baldomir! A risk!"

    "Judah always had a built-in following, but Floyd billed that as some type of mirror match against his "bigger version", even though Judah isn't really any bigger than Floyd. Again, people wanted to watch if Floyd could overcome someone he billed as his mirror image, except bigger. Anyone involved in boxing knew that Judah was in no way his equal and not even any bigger. But the public didn't realize that and bought it."

    "I could go on and on about each of his fights, but all you have to do is look at it and you'll see the storylines he created for it. Even Ortiz with the 'young hungry lion' thing. He sold it to the public like he was some kind of old fighter in for the fight of his life against a huge, prime bear of an opponent. Ortiz mentioned wanting to fight Floyd when he was 9, and Floyd ran with it. People actually believed that Floyd might enter the ring a shot old man and wanted to be there when it happened."

    "Compare that to some of the guys you mentioned. What storylines did Toney ever create? The potential was there for great storylines, but he never grabbed them and sold them to the general public. Even with Holyfield, it wasn't Toney's story, it was Holyfield's story. Toney needed to make it his."

    "What storylines did Roy create? Until he went for the heavyweight title, he never created one. And by then, it was too late; he was as popular as he would ever become at that point. Ditto with Hopkins. He was always 'the other guy' in his fights and never created his own storylines until recently. But now that he learned how, he took a page out of Floyd's book, and look at the results now. People are overlooking what this PPV will sell, but I think it's going to be a surprising hit. My team estimates about 700,000 buys, which would be a major victory for Hopkins and would prove my point beautifully. Hopkins is selling the story beautifully"

    "Having a national following or ethnic following helps, don't get me wrong. But the key to selling fights more than being Mexican or British or Filipino or whatever, is building the storyline. Let's look at Pacquiao for a second. He has an ethnic following, the media loves him, he gets to meet the President, lots of exposure everywhere. And yet he can never get over the hump and outsell Mayweather. Why not? Because he's never really sold us the storyline well. There was a storyline with Oscar, the David vs. Goliath angle, and that played really well. But what was the storyline with Hatton? The public doesn't care about 'going for another belt in a weight class' in this case because the public doesn't know what the hell 'junior welterweight' is. It's not a storyline that worked. He sold it entirely on the strength of the national followings. It did huge numbers but if he sold it like Floyd it would have been even bigger"

    "What was the story for Cotto? For Clottey? For Margarito? They were all good opponents, and I think they're underestimated because they're seen as being far past their best or ineffective. But we saw them that way because there was no storyline to feed us to make us think different, like what Floyd did with Baldomir".

    I point out to the promoter that Baldomir-Mayweather only did 700k buys, but he retorts, "It was a completely different situation. Floyd himself was still working his way to superstar status. There was no 24/7, no Face-Off, no Time Magazine covers or CNN segments like him and Pacquiao get now. The Floyd of today would have probably done a little over 1.1 million against Baldomir. It would have outsold Pacquiao-Clottey. I have no doubt about that"

    "Nobody creates a storyline and sells it better than Floyd, and that's why Floyd manages to outsell Pacquiao even though Pacquiao is more popular than Floyd. If you wanna know how to make your boxer a superstar, and I hope Martinez and Gamboa and Ward are listening to this, Pacquiao isn't the blueprint, Floyd is".
     
  2. JDotKris

    JDotKris Member Full Member

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    makes perfect sense to me, however i disagree with the no ethnic following of floyd because every black person i know who doesnt ever watch boxing will order a floyd fight just because its floyd, he plays that "rap star" lifestyle perfect with his money, cars, cloths, jewelry, talking ****, bragging about everything he owns and people eat it up just like they do with rappers in today's music

    i also think he was charming and witty back in the day, but now thats transformed into arrogant and obnoxious
     
  3. demigawd

    demigawd Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's a good point, but I think even in that case, they're buying into the storyline first, and the ethnic part second. that's why those same people don't go out and buy Judah, Hopkins, Toney, or Jones fights.

    There's ultimately always some racial/ethnic/national component to any boxer who becomes popular. It's sorta like how Pavlik, had he been more successful in his performances, would have drawn a large "white ethnic" audience, probably straight out of MMA.
     
  4. TyrantT316

    TyrantT316 Member Full Member

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    People want to see him lose.
     
  5. quocnam

    quocnam Member Full Member

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  6. JDotKris

    JDotKris Member Full Member

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    agreed, however i dont think its so much the storyline as is the fact that hes a fellow black man who they enjoy seeing flaunt his money and talk alot of **** to everyone, not trying to be racist, just calling it like i see it

    i think the storyline is what draws in the general sports fans and on the fence boxing fans
     
  7. JudgeDredd

    JudgeDredd Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Everyone loves a bad guy, look at early 90's Tyson, didn't exactly endear himself to the mainstream, especially with King at his side, but come fight time everyone was watching.
     
  8. Bobby Heenan

    Bobby Heenan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    its true though

    its genius...and floyd had to break away from bob arums clutches in order to accomplish this...remember arum saying oscar/floyd wouldnt sell and wasnt interested in doing it.....floyd/haymon had a plan all along for floyd to reach his current status...bob wouldnt let them operate this plan...and thats why they wanted out so badly...they wanted to market floyd to the urban/hip hop audience and bob wanted to market him as the all american kid with out of this world skills.......and bob holds it against them to this day.....thats why we cant get this fight that we want so badly

    as mentioned...guys like roy, nard, and even shane mosley...all had some skills and appeal...but none could ever attain the star status floyd has...hes defied the odds....roy had everything working for him and couldnt even come close to this....shane was a star...but no one knew how to market these guys...haymon is a genius...i remember haymon even being quoted about their plan once they were free from arum...it was in a kevin iole article....the article was about what a ppv monster floyd has become.....and iole is usually pretty anti floyd
     
  9. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    I disagree with a few things, but overall that was pretty good
     
  10. Abram

    Abram Member Full Member

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  11. Concrete

    Concrete Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good read, nice insight coming from a promoter.

    There are a ton of blacks and I mean a ton that don't like Mayweather and want to see him lose especially because of that rap star life style. A lot of women in the life style find him attractive though and don't mind watching his fights either though.

    Arum has promoted Pac the same way with the story lines. Pac moving up and defeating giants. Defeating guys that "Mayweather was scared to face". Defeating guys Mayweather faced but "beating them better". Now facing the rubber match with him and Marquez and if not Mayweather then will face a young black fighter and pawn him off as slick in Bradley.

    Good promoters know how to create the story lines to sell fights. Kahn fighting Maidana was interesting because of the story line of Kahn having a weak chin and Maidana being a non stop motor with heavy hands. Its what good promoters do.
     
  12. antonio8904

    antonio8904 Atheist Full Member

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    Oct 19, 2008
    this...^
     
  13. Bobby Heenan

    Bobby Heenan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    so true

    if you go to a pac fan and say something like "pac is on performance ehancers"...they will note how manny n floyd were the same weight in their late teens...they will say "maybe floyds on em too"

    basically manny has done the same things floyd has done...only later...except floyd beat actual champions at 147 and 154...and at the actual weight......

    but bob arum has people believing that manny is doing things so extraordinary and impossible....all the meanwhile floyd is picking on small guys and cherrypicking...lol
     
  14. JunitoJab

    JunitoJab Antagonist Full Member

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  15. demigawd

    demigawd Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I forgot to mention that on our way out, he said that Floyd's greatest storyline (and he also gives credit to Oscar for this) is Mayweather-De La Hoya. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said, "The storyline was brilliant. 'The World Awaits'. They sold it to us as it being the fight we've always wanted to see. It wasn't; nobody was calling for it beforehand. But they kept saying the world was awaiting the fight until the public believed that it really was the fight they were waiting for their entire lives, between two prime P4P equals".

    He also implied that perhaps part of the cat and mouse games with Pacquiao was to build a storyline that Floyd is afraid for when the fight eventually happens. Don't think I agree with that part of it, but I wouldn't put it past Floyd, either.