I read about some explanations about the old boxing stance and why boxers from the 19th and the early 20th centuries fight with the right hand put rear covering the stomach and the left hand extended. The explanation was that the old-school boxers were trained to fight without gloves and trying to punch the opponent's head will likely break your hand. That's why the boxing from that era looks more like fencing and the boxers tried to protect mostly their bodies. However, when I look BKFC matches the modern bare-knuckle boxers look more like standard gloved boxers rather than boxers from the past. Their stance and attacks are not much different than those of the modern boxers using gloves. It also seems that the modern bare knuckle boxers don't break their hands after every punch in the head of their opponents. So, my question is, was the old-time boxers using their stance just because they were not well-developed technically? Why we don't see the old stance in the BKFC nowadays if the old stance was really effective? Would Sullivan, Corbett and Bob Fitzsimmons be favoured against the modern bare-knuckle boxers if they fought against David Mundell who is the middleweight champion at BKFC or someone else from the modern bare-knuckle fighters with the same weight.
Theres a really good video on YT I remember watching on this. I do not know the words to type in to find it.
There is a LOT of hand damage in the bkb events... a lot. Even in the ONE muay thai fighting where they use MMA gloves, every card you have a guy that broke his hands, this was told to me by a guy that trained guys in stand up fighting cards using MMA gloves. It is terrible for your hands.
The answer is because it simply doesn’t work as well, despite what people will say, people want to give reasons because they want to give the older guys respect, but the reality is that it just doesn’t work as well, but it doesn’t mean they should get less respect, at the end of the day, the had no one to copy/paste and make their own additions. The reason they stood like that in the bareknuckle/smaller glove days was simply because pugilism hadn’t existed very long, or at least long enough for people to study fighters and make their own improvements through generations. It takes at least a generation of boxing for new technical improvements to occur usually, Corbett to Jack Johnson, then Jack Johnson to Gene Tunney, that’s how boxing evolves because people are able to look at previous fighters and make their own improvements generation to generation.
I think it's important to keep in mind that noone of the fighters competing today in Bare Knuckle Boxing were trained to compete in that sport. They come from classic boxing or from the MMA world and use the stance and the technique They used in their original sport. If the Barke Knuckle Fighting stays alive for couple more decades, We might perhaps see some evolution and then it would be interesting to see what kind of stance and technique turns out to be the most effective.
Buddy From a sports perspective boxing is relatively new. From a martial arts perspective it has an unbroken history going back to a time before Sparta was called Sparta. In short, the lacedemonians teach the hellens, The hellens teach the Romans, the romans teach the spanish, russians, french, germans, and english. The colonizers teach the colonies. The first felony in America comes from the Chesapeake colony in the 1600s and outlaws castration as a means to end a boxing match. Because it starts as sword fighting training, becomes a sport, becomes a form of dueling, becomes a new sport, and another new sport. At no point in human history after the ancient martial training swept the Mediterranean do men stop teaching younger men how to box. It is not by chance the first man we consider a modern sports champion in boxing had a careers worth of dueling and gambling prior to the public's pushback against puritanism and only formed an organized and followable sport after the public chilled on their god nonsense. Likewise is it not by chance this duelist also performed with and made his fame using swords.
That’s because BKFC hasn’t been around enough to evolve and mimic techniques and defensive styles that are more practical with bare knuckles, they’re still fighting as if they have 10 ounce gloves on because that’s all the boxing people in the past century have got to learn from. As a result it is a primitive art at the moment. Give it a couple of decades, and it will probably end up looking more similar to LPR manuals than to modern boxing
Over the last couple of years I have spent a lot of time around guys fighting in the BKFC. I have seen a ton of broken hands. Many of them come from guys trying to turn their punches over- as you do in boxing- without putting in the time and effort to learn how to do it accurately, if that makes sense. Typically, from what I have seen, they turn too far and break the small knuckles on the hand. Why don't they use an angled stance? Because, for the most part, they don't know how to box because they are MMA guys or wrestlers. If you have seen Austin Trout in BKFC, he fights very sideways and uses a very effective "up jab." The reason that they fight like gloved boxers is because they train in gloves. Which is why you see them try to "cover up" with bare hands which is just silly. They would be better off watching some old time fights and learn how to use distance, to draw leads and counter, how to slip, etc...
There hasn’t been a proper system in place or much money invested into it, let alone cameras where people can watch back the best of their time, look at them and make improvements, cameras were indeed very important and very underrated for the evolution of boxing because it sped up the evolution because, for example, Tunney would’ve been able to look at Corbett or Johnson, take what they did well and then add his own improvements through trial and error, then someone would’ve done the same with Tunney’s footage.
Anything I could think of has been covered in here. I’ll just say that I’ve watched some of the BKFC events on DAZN and they’re pretty entertaining. For you guys who haven’t, check them out. Some tough men in there in the ring.
In my opinion, this is an archaic way of fighting. today's one is better. Old tapes show Jack Johnson holding his guard in a similar way and throwing punches, fighting mainly with gloves. It is said that boxers from that period, such as Dempsey and Ketchell, learned their craft by fighting on the street first. When Kimbo Slice went to boxing, he also fought just like in those barbecue fights in the back, and you couldn't see that he was holding his hands like John Sullivan in old photos, regardless of whether he had gloves on or nothing. No, the old technique was poor, with all due respect to the old masters
Hell, very good point sir. I may have put too much into the semantics of the previous post and not enough into the point being made. I agree with the idea modernization has heavily changed how training is handed down. You're absolutely right in saying Corbett had to meet Tunney to teach him. Jim was about 60 when they met. Likewise, globalization has brought a lot to boxing. Pacquiao's love for TMA footwork did not go unnoticed. Pac's influence over the sport inspires others to fight like Pac and now a little more eastern martial arts has entered the boxing zeitgeist. Before then and well after the time when Tunney was king we had the addition of Mendoza School/Black Code. So when you say the sport is young what you mean is sanctioned unified rules boxing is fairly young and when you say the sport is evolving what you mean is the techniques that have been known to us for more than 3k years are being mixed in new ways with new influences to better match the rules and regulations of a the modern sport. I think. I don't mean to put words in your mouth. And that sir, is dead on. The training has an unbroken history for thousands of years, but the 12 rounder is barely older than we are, isn't older than some of us, and so you see old ways being adapted to new settings. I think if you've a great argument bud. Well done.
