Why was Bob Foster unsuccessful at heavyweight?

Because he was a LHW in a truly great era of heavies.

 

He fought Ali and Frazier and didn't undertake larger campaigns that could have seen him pick up feats like an Archie Moore did.

Today(and by the 70s) a dominant champ at LHW or cruiser goes up to HW to fight the champ and then if they fail they failed and they sucked at HW. In the past you had combo fighters fighting in both weight classes.

Foster fought in the 70s so he might have been doomed to be a failure at HW anyway but he really was championship or bust.

 

I just don’t think he had the chin to take a true heavyweight punch

 

Would love if actually knowledge people could give their take @Pat M @Saintpat @greynotsoold
Here's my take it boils down to a few factors:

First off, while he was a terror at 175, his chin wasn't exactly granite when faced with the concussive power of true heavyweights. Then there's the size reality. Foster was tall, but he was a lean light heavy, and he was stepping up during an era where we really started seeing heavyweights who weren't just big, but genuinely skilled athletes tipping the scales well over 200 pounds. He was often giving away significant bulk and facing men who knew how to use it.

Defensively, he wasn't a fortress. He had vulnerabilities that bigger, savvier heavyweights could exploit. And frankly, his electrifying, power-punching style, which decimated light heavyweights, didn't quite have the same one-shot fight-ending impact against larger men who could absorb more punishment. He couldn't just walk through guys like he did in his own division.

Think about the light heavyweights who did make a successful jump to heavyweight. They usually brought a specific, elite-level trump card. You had the masterful movers, guys like Billy Conn, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, and Jersey Joe Walcott, who used their superior speed and footwork to dance circles around, befuddle, and outwork their bigger, often slower, opponents. Or, you had the defensive wizards, the guys with ironclad guards and slick upper body movement like a prime James Toney or the ageless Archie Moore, who could frustrate and outmaneuver less refined heavyweights, making them miss and pay.

Foster, unfortunately, didn't really fit neatly into either of those molds. He wasn't that elusive speedster, nor was he a defensive shell. So, when you combine a less-than-stellar chin (for a heavyweight), a significant size disadvantage against increasingly skilled big men, and defensive gaps, it created a really tough equation for him at the top tier of the heavyweight division. That's my two cents on it, always open to hearing what more knowledgeable folks think!

 

His pride. Even at heavyweight Foster still had power, but instead of fighting smart, since he was giving up a lot of weight he insisted on fighting the top heavyweights head on, which ended badly. Foster had the experience, ring smarts, and hand speed to outsmart and pick his shots to win at heavyweight, but he also would've had to settle for more decision wins than knockout wins, which was something Foster wasn't willing to do.

Here is a piece with Harold Johnson talking about why he fought cautiously against heavyweights regardless of how much the audience disapproved.

The trainer says Harold never makes a move unless he feels capable of carrying it out to perfection.

"He's a professor of boxing" says Davidson. "That's why most fighters want no part of him in the ring"

Johnson is described by some boxing writers as a "colorless fighter" who doesn't seem to have the stomach for the rough and tough battling. He doesn't excite with his scientific performances. The critics say he should mix it up, go in swinging.

"I don't think that anyone who has ever stepped in a ring would say I lacked guts." Johnson says. "If there is such a fellow I'll be happy to meet him any time, any place."

"I'm a cautious fighter because I've had to be. Most of the men in my weight division don't want to fight me, so I've had to go after heavyweights, buy 20, 30, 40 pounds heavier.

"Now I would like somebody to tell me that at 170 pounds they would walk in swinging at guys 200 pounds and better. They'd get their brains rattled. I have to fight these big guys with my head as well as my body or I'll get killed. The idea is to win, not commit suicide."
https://imgur.com/zeEuM0D

 

Foster couldnt put on weight. He had the skill ofcourse. He is the only one to ever bust up Ali with his jab. Imagine what those Light Heavyweights felt when he jabbed them.

 

There's loads of reasons.

Physicality - For starters he had problems putting on meaningful weight, despite his promising frame. On top if this he never made a prolonged effort to campaign there, perhaps finding a way to settle into a stronger, higher weight. Compare him to Michael Spinks - even without campaigning there Spinks put on an extremely functional 25 pounds in just over 3 months to fight Holmes. By the rematch he'd slipped into an extra 5 pounds on top of that.

Style - Sure, Foster had the height, reach and ATG jab but the man was a stalker, a puncher. Combine this with his lack of physicality and he's well outside his comfort zone. Looking at Michael Spinks, again, and we see an extremely versatile fighter who was more than willing to play the part of matador despite being a horrifically hard punching light heavyweight who could boss your average contender and have elite level 175'ers extremely wary of said power.

Durability- Add the two factors above and we are looking at a guy lacking some robustness and durability against the big boys, particularly without stylistic adaptions. I think his durability was fine at 175, but at heavyweight it wasn't. Admittedly it was only his 17th fight but losing to Terrell by KO is mildly concerning. It was during a 14 fight run where Terrell only stopped two opponents (including Bob) and a few of them had pretty ordinary records. The other guy he stopped was like 14-10.

Still, his record at heavyweight isn't as bad as the average guy thinks. His loss against Jones came in just his 10th fight and 4 months later Jones was a top 4 heavyweight. He was also an extremely late substitute. He was never winning that, with context. Folley was way inside the top 10 and we don't need to talk about what monsters Ali and Frazier were at the time. He didn't win the light heavyweight title until years after he'd lost to Jones, Terrell and Folley which means the only heavyweights he ever lost to, in his prime, were Frazier and Ali.

It's fair to say we didn't see Foster at his best against any mid or even lower level heavyweight contenders. Would he have done much better? You'd think not.

 

Is it a classic case of 'can't put muscles on your chin'. Bob was a terror at lhw but didn't have an anvil there; he did have little anvils in his fists and that is another problem. LHW to HW means he was fighting guys a couple of stone heavier than he was used to. In shape. The punches that brutalised guys at 175 would not have had the same effect which is a huge psychological blow for the fella throwing them, and the ones coming back, even from fighters not noted as punchers, have an effect. Physically and psychologically damaging. Now, had Bob used his head and analysed his frame, figured out his attributes could make him relatively difficult to hit and set a good pace, using a toght defence and staying out of trouble for the first eight, the above problems become less of a problem. His punches will effect tired fighters, and tired fighters punchers won't affect him so much. But Bob didn't want to fight like that. So his pride, his style and his physicality all counted against him...as did the success of his style at the lighter weight. If it ain't broke, dont fix it? Bob didn't know it was broke till it was too late....

 

I remember the Ali fight Foster's fundamentals and jab were troubling Ali but once Ali starting hitting him he was just too big and kept knocking Foster down over and over so I would imagine he was just too naturally small.

 

I had the feeling Ali was just toying with him, cruising in 1st gear. As soon as he turned it on a bit he was way too much.

 

Firstly, obviously the heavyweight division was one of if not the greatest of all time, secondly, Foster may be a tad overrated, since he reigned in an absolute wasteland of a light heavyweight division, so we never really got to see where his limit was, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if a Bob Satterfield turned out to be better than him, unpopular opinion, but Satterfield from the Harold Johnson win, looked better on film than Bob Foster, I understand that isn’t the be all and end all in every circumstance, but it’s certainly something I consider.

 

I wouldn't say Folley, Jones or Terrell were great HWs.. Ali & Frazier yes.

 

Firstly, from the perspective of moving up and having success at HW, Foster came along at the wrong time. World class LHWs stepping up and weighing mid 180's to low 190's in the 1950's and before, were close enough to the average sized HW contender to compete at world level, e.g. Tunney, Loughran, Moore, Charles, Johnson, etc. LHWs from the 1980's and beyond utilised evolving sports science/nutrition/supplements/PEDs (delete as you see fit) to bulk up beyond 200lbs, e.g. Spinks, Moorer, Toney, Adamek, etc. In the 1970's, the typical HW contender was bigger than ever before and Foster either didn't have the means available to him (or for whatever reason choose not to utilise those means) to add on the sort of functional weight the aforementioned fighters did.

Secondly, and more simply, he had LHW, not HW, punch resistance.

Finally, fighters who move up successfully in weight, tend to be mobile out-boxers or elusive counter punchers. Pressure fighters and sluggers tend to be less successful as they move up, all other factors being equal, for obvious reasons. Whilst Foster may have been a boxer puncher, rather than a pure slugger, the emphasis in that term as it pertains to his style, is on "puncher". He was always stalking, looking for the opportunity to plant his feet and throw with good leverage.

Being undersized, in a division you have a below average chin, when you're not elusive, and are a stalker rather than a mover, is a tall order.

 

Hi Greg.
Word and research perfect, that said I loved Foster growing up, the laid back foot dragging of a century ago was a joy to behold, he ozzooed meaneace, he was the praying mantis of the ring, didn't do much, or so you thought, but all the time stalking and throwing out a lazy jab, which he employed as his range finder, Finnegan " it was a like scaffold pole with a boxing glove on the end " Chris gave him one of his toughest fights, but not enough to topple a true great, once saw a photo of him, waist up with hands bandaged, held at chest height, looked really fit and ready to go, memories...
thanks for your posts Greg, they are a must read, well for all, but in particular for new members, or young fight buffs who want to learn, no arguments pls.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.