Why was Cotto so much easier for Pacquiao than he was for Mayweather?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by horst, May 6, 2012.


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  1. mancat

    mancat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think that Cotto had a better training camp in the Mayweather fight. When he fought Pac he had just broken up with his uncle, and was being trained by his friend. It is obvious from this fight with Mayweather and his last fight with Margarito that his new trainer is a mastre tactician and teacher. So, to answer your question, the reason Pac had such an easy time with Cotto is because Cotto had a poor camp when they fought.
     
    mancat, May 7, 2012
    mancat, May 7, 2012
    #166
  2. roncruiser

    roncruiser Member Full Member

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    Agreed. Big difference!
     
    roncruiser, May 7, 2012
    roncruiser, May 7, 2012
    #167
  3. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    I don`t preach what I don`t practice dickhead, I will never PAY to watch fmj or pac ever again until they sort there **** out & get in that ring together.... BUT I am a boxing fan & those 2 are the cream right now so I will watch for free as soon as that option becomes available which I did yesterday.... good fight.

    Ps. you don`t fool anyone with your fmj avater, why don`t you just admit that your a pacquiao fan 1st & foremost ?... your only making yourself look like a dick - true story ;)
     
    Bill Butcher, May 7, 2012
    Bill Butcher, May 7, 2012
    #168
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Cotto fought Pacquiao at a prohibitive weight. He fought Mayweather at his best possible fighting weight.

    Cotto had a relative stylistic dis-advantage against Pacquiao. He was a stalker walking onto this generation's best composite puncher. Against Mayweather he was stalking an ageing mover.

    That's it really.

    But that's not to undermine the Pacquiao performance, which I loved. Nor is it to over-estimate the Mayweather performance, which was 10-2 on my card but not as dominant as that result makes the fight seem. Both did a number on him, in different ways - natural really, given they are different fighters.

    Shame such a straight-forward question provokes so much rabid debate. The sport will be worse of when Pac and Money retire, but the board will be a better place I suppose.
     
    McGrain, May 7, 2012
    McGrain, May 7, 2012
    #169
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    More than reasonable and fair play to you. I wish I had the courage of your convictions.
     
    McGrain, May 7, 2012
    McGrain, May 7, 2012
    #170
  6. horst

    horst Guest


    Come on Scar, you're better than this. You are talking ABSOLUTE ****ING NONSENSE here!! :nut:nut:nut


    Reason#1: Miguel Cotto probably walks around at around 150-165lbs when he's not in training. He does a 9-12 week training camp probably for a fight as big as Pacquiao. You're seriously trying to tell me that a man that weight would feel the difference over a TWELVE WEEK program, cutting to 145 rather than making 146 for Clottey?!?!! :lol:

    Reason#2: Miguel Cotto started at 140, he was not even a natural welterweight that outgrew 147, he was a light-welter who moved up for big fights once it started becoming difficult to make 140. This is a guy who is 5ft 7in with a 67in reach, it's not as if he is the size of Tito Trinidad who could move from 147 to 154 and then 160, his frame is simply not naturally that size.

    Reason#3: If Miguel Cotto found coming in under 147 so difficult to the point that it was debilitating for him, why did he do it so often!? :blood Cotto had 9 fights at a 147lbs limit, and he willingly came in under 147 not once or twice, but 5 times! Was he weight-drained to the point of zombification against Quintana, when he came in at 146 and won by KO? Or in the fight before Pacquiao, when he came in at 146 and won despite suffering a horror cut? Ah right, I suppose not, because it's easy for him to be 146 (1 pound less than 147), but it turns him into a shambling wreck of a fighter to be 145 (1 pound less than 146). ****ing hell, you couldn't make **** like this up!!!

    Reason#4: Everyone (including me) accepts that Oscar De La Hoya was weight-drained against Pacquiao. This was because THE EVIDENCE supports this. Oscar De La Hoya hadn't fought at 147 for SEVEN YEARS before facing Manny, so to ask a guy in his mid-30s who'd had a very long career to then cut to a whole weight class lower than he'd been making for many years could of course make a fighter suffer weight-drained and diminished performance. Is this the same situation as a much younger guy who often comes in light voluntarily/naturally, then being asked to weigh ONE POUND less than his previous successful fight??!?! Honestly, this is a ridiculous argument. :scaredas:

    Reason#5: I think ODLH was weight-drained vs Pac partly because of THE EVIDENCE I saw in the ring. I don't just make silly decisions based on the irrelevant fact that I have found it difficult to make weight before in my non-professional combat career, I make decisions on fighters like Oscar and Cotto based on... Oscar and Cotto. Slightly more relevant than my own in-gym experiences. I think it is fair to say that ODLH was weight-drained vs Pac because the evidence in the ring shown Oscar to be more tentative, less aggressive, less powerful, and much less active than we saw him even in the recent past. Exactly what EVIDENCE do we have to suggest Miguel Cotto suffered the same weight-draining effects? Cotto is an excellent fighter, but he is known to have issues with chin and stamina in fights with powerful opponents. In the Pac fight, he was fighting very well until he got clipped a few times by a brilliant puncher, never recovered, and got dominated for the rest of the fight by a guy with better speed and stamina. What is your evidence for saying he was weight-drained in the fight? Because you and guys at your gym agree that sweating out a few cheeseburgers is hard work? ****ing hell man, please. Watch the fights, know the circumstances, know your sport, and stop thinking the only thing that's important is your own measly 'experience'. :dead



    I think you should consider yourself well and truly schooled on this subject now, because you are talking utter ****, embarrassing ****. I readily accept that fighters can get drained by trying to make weights too low for them (eg: Oscar vs Pac), but to suggest asking a guy who comes in light at 146 voluntarily to drop ONE POUND over a 12-week training camp is a ****ing joke, it is insane. Done. :hi:
     
    horst, May 7, 2012
    horst, May 7, 2012
    #171
  7. bachatu

    bachatu Pro Full Member

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    Count the number of punches Pac landed on Cotto cleanly. Angles, speed, and power. Broke Cotto early on, had him go into survival after the 4th. He started breaking him since the 2nd round. Mayweather, by nature of style is a more patient fighter and isn't a fireball like Pac is. He was getting to Cotto when he would unleash his offense too, and in my opinion could have stopped him.

    The way to beat Cotto is fighting fire with fire. Thats what Margarito did in the first fight, thats what Pacquiao did as well. If you can take his punishment that he gives (not many can do), and you can deliver the same or more, you have a good chance of breaking him down. Not many have been able to do so thus far. In Pac's case, he delivered much more punishment than he took, imo. Speed and Pac's style was a big difference in the fight. in Margarito's case, he took more punishment than he delivered, he just got away with it due to his great durability and conditioning.
     
    bachatu, May 7, 2012
    bachatu, May 7, 2012
    #172
  8. Bladegunner

    Bladegunner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What a stupid question. Anyone who knows boxing knows pac a extremely offensive fighter and floyd a extremely defensive fighter fights nothing a like.
     
    Bladegunner, May 7, 2012
    Bladegunner, May 7, 2012
    #173
  9. dodong

    dodong >>PACQUIAO Full Member

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    This content is protected
    This content is protected
     
    dodong, May 7, 2012
    dodong, May 7, 2012
    #174
  10. Arranmcl

    Arranmcl Arran Full Member

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    *******s avoiding my question :?
     
    Arranmcl, May 7, 2012
    Arranmcl, May 7, 2012
    #175
  11. Concrete

    Concrete Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1. Cotto since the Pac fight has been trained by Stewart and Pedro Diaz which has helped make him a better fighter. This is a upgrade over Joe Santiago.

    2. Cotto was way more ready mentally and physically for this fight then for Pac. After what Margarito did, Cotto wasn't mentally ready to take that type of punishment again. Yet vs Mayweather he went to the hospital bleeding after the fight but yet gave his all during the fight which shows that even though he had to be hurting during the fight he was mentally prepared to endure and keep pushing.

    3. Cotto weighed at a weight he felt 100% comfortable at and held the advantage over Mayweather at.

    4. Styles make fights and Pac isn't a good stylistic matchup for Cotto. But I think Cotto would have been able to endure more if he was mentally and physically more prepared and had a better trainer and was able to have the weight advantage. Being able to endure more may have allowed him to hurt Pac more.
     
    Concrete, May 7, 2012
    Concrete, May 7, 2012
    #176
  12. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    - Cotto did well by neutralizing Mayweather's right hand. Pacquiao is southpaw, and he couldn't neutralize Pac's left.

    - The weight is actually an issue. 9 pounds is a big difference in how much a fighter needs to drain. Don't pretend it's not a contributing factor.

    - At that point, Pac moved his feet quicker than Floyd does now, and Mayweather's defense tends to be best when his feet are planted, so Cotto had a much better time catching Mayweather up against the ropes.

    - New trainer, whereas he pretty much self-trained for Pac (although I don't think this was a huge factor honestly).
     
    Brickhaus, May 7, 2012
    Brickhaus, May 7, 2012
    #177
  13. TheGreat

    TheGreat Boxing Junkie banned

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    :thumbsup Good points BUT lets not forget about the 10 ounce gloves, IMO at 154 with 10 ounce gloves I don't think Pac would be able to hurt Cotto early which would completely change the fight, at 145 with 8 ounce gloves he was able to hurt Cotto early, combine that with a weight advantage and I think Cotto can be competitive with Pac.
     
    TheGreat, May 7, 2012
    TheGreat, May 7, 2012
    #178
  14. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Styles.

    Pacquiao had an easier time with Cotto.

    Mayweather had a much easier time with JMM.
     
    Asterion, May 7, 2012
    Asterion, May 7, 2012
    #179
  15. ZippyMan

    ZippyMan Active Member Full Member

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    Simple, Paq is better than PBF.
     
    ZippyMan, May 7, 2012
    ZippyMan, May 7, 2012
    #180
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