Why was Cotto so much easier for Pacquiao than he was for Mayweather?

Cormega · May 8, 2012

pejevan said: ↑

Where is Michiganwarrior, the dumb boy, wholost an avatar bet with me?

I am sending him the gayest tweetybird queerweather avatar ever and he stopped posting in ESB.
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The way you've gone on and on about winning an avatar bet against that moron, you'd think it was your greatest ever accomplishment. God damn you're a ****ing loser. :-(

pejevan · May 8, 2012

Cormega said: ↑

The way you've gone on and on about winning an avatar bet against that moron, you'd think it was your greatest ever accomplishment. God damn you're a ****ing loser. :-(
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Michiganwarrior represents the brightest and the finest and most intelligent among you *****s.

You are several rungs lower than Michiganwarrior in terms of actual intellect.

pejevan · May 8, 2012

sdsfinest22 said: ↑

no he isn't...he doesn't have the versatility...your a racist.hi:
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You think that fighting cherrypicked opponents is versatility????

MoJoGoodie · May 8, 2012

They wouldnt ask for it if they didnt think it made a difference.

What weight did they want Cotto to come in at for the second fight with Pac they tried to get?

Cormega · May 8, 2012

pejevan said: ↑

Michiganwarrior represents the brightest and the finest and most intelligent among you *****s.

You are several rungs lower than Michiganwarrior in terms of actual intellect.
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No, you're clearly one of the dumbest fliptards on this site and MW is several rungs above you. I'm at the very top of the ladder shitting down on both of your gay, ugly faces.

Now why don't you tell me to "shut the **** off", loser? :rofl

pejevan · May 8, 2012

Cormega said: ↑

No, you're clearly one of the dumbest fliptards on this site and MW is several rungs above you. I'm at the very top of the ladder shitting down on both of your gay, ugly faces.

Now why don't you tell me to "shut the **** off", loser? :rofl
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Oh, butthurt because someone mentioned"Michigay" is more inteeligent thanyour are?

Cormega · May 8, 2012

pejevan said: ↑

Oh, butthurt because someone mentioned"Michigay" is more inteeligent thanyour are?
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Yeah, you're butthurt.

Clarky Cat · May 8, 2012

Bazooka said: ↑

its not like Cotto did not agree, he agreed to the catch weight and Both Cotto and pac honored that contract...

its an entirely different story when you agree to a catchweight have a guy move up two divisions and deliberately fail to make the weight Nobody talks about that....

Bottom line here is simple, you can talk all the **** you want about catch weights but as long as the fighters agree, what do you really have? an empty hater like argument.

But when you have a fighter who agrees to make a specific weight especially when a guy is moving up two divisions you have an obligation to make that weight, I know I know the next ***** type response is he paid Marquez... your right he did but is that the ****ing point?

you want to talk **** about catch weights lets talk about catchweights one fighter honors that limit the other doesnt for a specific advantage.

Anyhow the boy looked old in alot of spots, sure you all say brilliant sure your all sitting on his dick and pedaling his balls, but the man isnt using his legs these days for a reason he is 35.

The fight was closer than the score cards show, Cotto won 4 maybe five rounds in my eyes and Floyd got too much credit for looping right hands that were clearly blocked.

Anyhow from the 6th on Floyd looked like he couldnt keep up the pace, so when you have a guy like Manny who wont stop throwing who doesnt fade in fights, you really think this is an easy fight for Floyd?

Ask yourself this we have moved from Take the test to please take less, and Manny has a right to PPV revenue as he carried the sport and fought everybody Floyd was supposed to while Floyd got cold feet and retired.

so if the fight doesnt happen its not on Mannys hands nor Arums, Floyd is going to have to learn how to conduct business like a grown up if you really want this fight, you are going to have to work around the politics of the sport if your not you are guilty as well that simple....
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Of course Cotto agreed, but that doesn't change the fact that Pacquiao's team wanted, asked for, and were given, the catchweight. Let's not forget that Cotto was offered a career high payday, and a chance to prove himself against one of the top two (active) guys on the planet. Add in that he was being promoted by that **** Arum, and had a belt which the old **** wanted for Pacquiao. I'm no fan of conspiracies, but I wouldn't be surprised if a significant amount of arm-twisting was done by Top Rank. Kind of along the lines of "take the fight, accept the terms; you'll be paid handsomely and if you refuse your career is dead in the water". Cotto signed the contract, sure, but he most likely weighed up the pros and cons and figured "**** it".

horst · May 8, 2012

Scar said: ↑

Are you honestly trying to tell me that his training camp would be 100% normal and similar to usual training camps when a catchweight is required?. That defeats the purpose of conditioners specializing in that field of preparation, doesn't it?

When a fighter is subjected to a specific weight, he needs to be conditioned and prepared for it. There's no such thing as "I'll have to make 145 one week before the weigh-in", even if there was you can't honestly tell me with a straight damn face that it's healthy to take that approach.

He weighed 146 against Clottey as normal as he would any WELTERWEIGHT fight, they condition him to weigh from 141 to 147, which is the welterweight limit comfortably and freely. He's not subjected to anything specific as he was for Pacquiao. If that's difficult to comprehend you need to hit the gym to fully understand why weight divisions exist in this sport. Otherwise we could make the discussion that 122 is just FOUR POUNDS away from 126!, so why does the featherweight division exist!?

I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion in any way. It's pretty simple and obvious, the man has been weighing from 146.5 to 147 as a welterweight for 3 years straight, which obviously means his body got used to the weight division, till the catchweight fight came up. The reason why the catchweight came up was obvious and admitted by Roach who pretty much said his fighter isn't even physically attained to the weight category yet so some advantage needs to be considered.

Unlike you, I never said Cotto found moving down physically distressful nor did I assume he did and pretended it's a fact, like you obviously do with your hilarious claims.

Cotto has been weighing 146.5 to 147 for ALL his fights at welterweight for 3 years straight, what does that mean to you?, use your head for a split second and TRY to look through this as reasonable as you could. When a man moves up in weight because his previous weight division is difficult to make it means that he has as many pounds necessary, considering the weight division, to increase and feel comfortable doing so. Obviously his conditioning team knows/studies what's best for him and where he would be more comfortable, whether it be 145 or 143 or at the mark of 147. There's a reason they usually assume that when a fighter usually hits the very mark(147 in this case) for numerous fights it means that he might be struggling at the weight and is barely making the limit required.

Again I'll repeat my question, if 2 pounds is nothing and can be done by simply typing behind a computer and spitting in a trash can, why the hell was it requested by Freddie Roach to begin with?. I hope you know that Roach was also trying to get him down as low as 143(the weight Pacquiao is comfortable at) only to agree when Cotto brought up "145 or nothing". Why would he have agreed?, I mean it's only TWO DAMN POUNDS, right?, it's nothing so why was it still requested?

Here's a painful fact, if you have no clue whatsoever how weights work, it doesn't mean that they mean nothing. It just means that you need to educate yourself more.

The DLH fight is a totally different subject, Pacquiao sure as hell wasn't going to move up three weight divisions for one fight so some consequences needed to be considered by DLH his self if he wanted the fight. Whether he was weight drained or not is a different subject, in this case we're talking about divisions, not catchweights and it's a totally different subject/camp preparation.

Do you honestly want to tell me what catchweights are easily done and harmless in most cases?, seriously?

If so, which is obvious and hilarious, why the hell are they requested?!

Again, you type in a load of junk there and you're putting words in my mouth. I never suggested for one second that Cotto was "drained" in any way or form. What I'm saying is that the catchweight request DOES HAVE IT'S ADVANTAGES, otherwise catchweight requests wouldn't be common in this sport. Roach made it clear when he said that his fighter is obviously smaller than those guys so some kind of compensation must be made. Of course, those mean nothing to you because it's only 2 pounds man!

Another fact, two pounds of pretty much living a normal life is NOTHING compared to 2 pounds athletically and professionally in any sport. It's like some fat slob claiming to be a heavyweight because he's over 200 pounds of pure fat when in reality he's in no professional weight category.

Why the **** do conditioners make a living conditioning athletes for any situation necessary, whether it was a catchweight request, new weight division or whatever. And you can find specialists in every field, whether it's moving down, making a specific catchweight request or moving up. If you haven't been to an actual quality gym to run into those guys and put your body to the test, google is your damn friend.

Welcome to school of professional weights 101.
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I've never ever seen someone write a post this long and say so little. All you've done there is spend half an hour writing then repeating one (highly facile, infantile, speculative and meaningless) point.

You have failed to adequately refute ANYTHING that I said in my own lengthy post, where I made several different points, supported by facts, evidence and statistics.

I think you must have a very, very small brain indeed, to genuinely believe that cutting ONE POUND more over a 12-week training camp makes a difference. It's nonsensical, really. Utter fantasy.

I will re-post this, as it has not been adequately refuted yet by anyone on this thread: :good

Popkins said: ↑

Come on Scar, you're better than this. You are talking ABSOLUTE ****ING NONSENSE here!! nut

Reason#1: Miguel Cotto probably walks around at around 150-165lbs when he's not in training. He does a 9-12 week training camp probably for a fight as big as Pacquiao. You're seriously trying to tell me that a man that weight would feel the difference over a TWELVE WEEK program, cutting to 145 rather than making 146 for Clottey?!?!!

Reason#2: Miguel Cotto started at 140, he was not even a natural welterweight that outgrew 147, he was a light-welter who moved up for big fights once it started becoming difficult to make 140. This is a guy who is 5ft 7in with a 67in reach, it's not as if he is the size of Tito Trinidad who could move from 147 to 154 and then 160, his frame is simply not naturally that size.

Reason#3: If Miguel Cotto found coming in under 147 so difficult to the point that it was debilitating for him, why did he do it so often!? :blood Cotto had 9 fights at a 147lbs limit, and he willingly came in under 147 not once or twice, but 5 times! Was he weight-drained to the point of zombification against Quintana, when he came in at 146 and won by KO? Or in the fight before Pacquiao, when he came in at 146 and won despite suffering a horror cut? Ah right, I suppose not, because it's easy for him to be 146 (1 pound less than 147), but it turns him into a shambling wreck of a fighter to be 145 (1 pound less than 146). ****ing hell, you couldn't make **** like this up!!!

Reason#4: Everyone (including me) accepts that Oscar De La Hoya was weight-drained against Pacquiao. This was because THE EVIDENCE supports this. Oscar De La Hoya hadn't fought at 147 for SEVEN YEARS before facing Manny, so to ask a guy in his mid-30s who'd had a very long career to then cut to a whole weight class lower than he'd been making for many years could of course make a fighter suffer weight-drained and diminished performance. Is this the same situation as a much younger guy who often comes in light voluntarily/naturally, then being asked to weigh ONE POUND less than his previous successful fight??!?! Honestly, this is a ridiculous argument. :scaredas:

Reason#5: I think ODLH was weight-drained vs Pac partly because of THE EVIDENCE I saw in the ring. I don't just make silly decisions based on the irrelevant fact that I have found it difficult to make weight before in my non-professional combat career, I make decisions on fighters like Oscar and Cotto based on... Oscar and Cotto. Slightly more relevant than my own in-gym experiences. I think it is fair to say that ODLH was weight-drained vs Pac because the evidence in the ring shown Oscar to be more tentative, less aggressive, less powerful, and much less active than we saw him even in the recent past. Exactly what EVIDENCE do we have to suggest Miguel Cotto suffered the same weight-draining effects? Cotto is an excellent fighter, but he is known to have issues with chin and stamina in fights with powerful opponents. In the Pac fight, he was fighting very well until he got clipped a few times by a brilliant puncher, never recovered, and got dominated for the rest of the fight by a guy with better speed and stamina. What is your evidence for saying he was weight-drained in the fight? Because you and guys at your gym agree that sweating out a few cheeseburgers is hard work? ****ing hell man, please. Watch the fights, know the circumstances, know your sport, and stop thinking the only thing that's important is your own measly 'experience'. :dead

I think you should consider yourself well and truly schooled on this subject now, because you are talking utter ****, embarrassing ****. I readily accept that fighters can get drained by trying to make weights too low for them (eg: Oscar vs Pac), but to suggest asking a guy who comes in light at 146 voluntarily to drop ONE POUND over a 12-week training camp is a ****ing joke, it is insane. Done. :hi:
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horst · May 8, 2012

guapo said: ↑

This pretty much answers *****s respond that Cotto was drained. Bravo Popkins.
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:good:smoke

knockout artist · May 8, 2012

Fragile ducker Popkins has already been outed and exposed by the Team Elite Corporation multiple times on these boards.

Hey Popkins, how did Mayweather do against Marquez? How would Mayweather do against fighters like Sinsurat and Torrecampo?

sdsfinest22 · May 8, 2012

pejevan said: ↑

You think that fighting cherrypicked opponents is versatility????
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Never interprete anything right...I spit on you in this website bro..your pathetic..you just insult and you don't bring the right info to the debate...you focus on my job rather than the reason we on a boxing website..your that pathetic.hi::nut

sdsfinest22 · May 8, 2012

Cormega said: ↑

Yeah, you're butthurt.
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Easy to expose his argument..he rebuttals with insults and nothing that has anything to do with boxing. His argument gets put to shame all the time...posters are always making fun of that guy because he doesn't bring correct info to the debate and he just trolls. He's the little Asian guy who is all tough over the net, but when confronted in person, his ******* puckes up, voice gets shaky, eyes get watery, and he is quick to apologize.:rofl

DABOZ · May 8, 2012

sdsfinest22 said: ↑

Easy to expose his argument..he rebuttals with insults and nothing that has anything to do with boxing. His argument gets put to shame all the time...posters are always making fun of that guy because he doesn't bring correct info to the debate and he just trolls. He's the little Asian guy who is all tough over the net, but when confronted in person, his ******* puckes up, voice gets shaky, eyes get watery, and he is quick to apologize.:rofl
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Just like your hero, all talk no actions. I owned you!!!:hi:

flashy k.o · May 8, 2012

Cotto at 154 p + Pedro Diaz , right now would beat Pacquiao , period !

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