Why was Greb ranked as no.1 so late?

I don't think it is strictly the case that Greb was not rated as pound for pound No1 during his career.

The problem is more that his career was forgotten verry quickly once it was over.

One thing that particularly harmed his standing, is the fact that he and his supporters did not live as long as other contemporary fighters and their supporters.

 

1) Here's some of the tallies from a post of Senya's I saved from a few years back. It would appear your shutout score is the outlier, not the general consensus. This is where I draw my conclusion that it wasn't until the last third of the fight that Langford pulled away:


Boston Globe - Langford was better from 3rd round on.

Boston Journal - first three rounds Gans', two Langford's, three even, seven Langford's

Pawtucket Evening Times - in six of the 15 rounds Langford easily had the better, the rest were about even.

Associated Press - first three Langford was too cautious, rounds 4-8 they were evenly matched, the rest Langford's.

Baltimore Sun - 1-3 Gans, 4-6 Langford, 7-8 even, 9 Langford, 10 even, 11-15 Langford

NY Sun - 1-3 nothing done by either, 4-5 Gans, 6 Langford, 7-8 even, 9-15 Langford.



2) You again ignore the circumstances that Gans had to deal with that could explain how the younger, bigger, fresher Langford was able to "out general" him. Dave Holly, by newspaper accounts, has beaten both men and shouldn't be forgotten in this equation. Gans turning around the next day (after a train ride back from Philly to Boston) to go 15 with a younger, bigger, and already very good fighter in Langford, a loss isn't surprising. It was surprising at the time only due to how unknown Sam was and if Joe had any inkling that he was more than "just another prospect", I doubt he'd have taken the fight with the deck stacked against him like that.

2 weeks afterwards Langford was getting whipped by Blackburn and a few months later in 1904, 2 fights before getting robbed against Walcott, got outpointed over 10 by none other than Dave Holly.

Holly is still, and has been, the forgotten man in the equation. It's not like Gans fought against a scrub the day before he lost to Langford and it's clear he wasn't close to 100% prepared and ready when he stepped in against Sam.

 

I don't know man, the following quotes point to Duran being underrated in his own time:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129144

I think once Floyd & Manny retire, people will in time might place them higher on the ranking list.

 

If my argument wasn't clear enough, let this be it: the win is overrated.

You compared it to someone beating prime Whitaker. Yeah, it's the equivalent of a bigger fighter beating prime Whitaker within 24 hours of Sweet Pea fighting a beltholder (who turned out to be good enough to beat said fighter) and is fatigued. Looks better on paper than what it actually is. Still a hell of an accomplishment, but it's not close to what Benitez did. I've heard some people call it the greatest win of all time. That's why I call it overrated, despite it still being great.

 

Then how can that win be compared to beating a prime Pernell McGrain :huh with all of these troubles Gains had going into the fight it would surely be quite the opposite, although still a great win nonetheless. Just been reading up on Sam and Gains a bit and I'll be sure to check out Dave Holly as well.

 

Well put & thought out post :good

 

Plenty of fighters said so about Greb, both guys who fought him but others from his era who didn't. I have seen the quotes in various threads before, perhaps a Greb hardcore can post some contemporary fighters opinions of him.

From 1925 comparing him to Stanley Ketchel and Bob Fitzsimmons:

In addition to his great resume afaik Greb never drew the color line which is another plus in his favor.

 

What if someone beat a prime Pernell Whitaker who has a stomach ache at 17? How good would that win be?

Has there been any fighter in the history of boxing that could have done that at 17?

Whichever way you spin it, the win is monumental.

 

other than armstrong in 38 don't think there's any comparison