Why was Marciano's era not strong?

marciano himself was in the war but he benefited from the low key Providence circuit allowing him to develop outside of the New York radar. His early opponents were hand picked, he wasn't thrown into the deep end until he was ready. So although he did not get going until after the war he was nursed along properly. Rocky was quite lucky.

Early boxing on TV covered lower level novice shows because they were cheaper to broadcast, but it made stars out of guys not ready to headline on better cards. These youngsters made an impression on televised shows far too early. Tommy Huricane Jackson was voted the most exciting fighter on TV during Rockys reign. He was a kid!

The exposure of a small time fight card to a wider TV audience than the crowd in the hall itself puts pressure on each televised bout that evening being more competitively matched than say a card that was not televised. If then each bout is an absolute war, as often was the case, then it makes for great TV but also takes its toll on the kids in those fights.

lots of guys took up boxing in the army but the scope to make an actual living at it had changed somewhat. I'm talking of the honest local boxers who before the war could fight regular enough within their own level without accepting the fate of the "fall guy" all the time against potential stars of the next level.

Before the war a boxer did not have to have championship ambitions to make a living within each level. After the war a kid taking up professional boxing without championship potential had more of a grim future. It was more discouraging.

The infrastructure of building into a local then state/regional, national, international attraction had changed with the loss of small
clubs. There was less layers for the opponents.

By comparison, Lots of pro boxer's with ambitions before the war, who had an interrupted career, actually benefited if they were still comparatively young as they re emerged into the TV era.

 

Henry Cooper, a top amateur before national service, always said national service actually killed off a lot of potential boxer's because not all the kids asked to represent their regiments at boxing had boxed before. They certainly were not former Olympians or ABA champions like he was yet they could end up in the ring with Cooper or Erskine or Dick Richardson all of whom were later world rated as pros.

 

Marciano's era appears weak because people just don't know a lot about the top fighters of the era. This is crucial when studying history. Marciano's era was in reality stocked with talent from light heavyweight as well as heavyweight because guys could just bulk up 10 lbs from light heavy and be an average size-smallish heavy and make a significantly bigger pay day. So in reality Marciano's era was tougher in some respects than others.

 

That's one way of looking at it. But there's no evidence that such kids would have ever stepped foot in the ring without being in the army in the first place.
The idea that an 18 or 19 year old who has never boxed before were better "potential boxers" in civilian life than in the regiment is false.
But Cooper's point was obviously that those kids who did agree or 'volunteer' to represent the regiment were over-matched and generally put off the idea of boxing pretty sharply !

 

Because posters are out picking out individuals who came along later and saying they didnt do too bad as evidence that an enforced stint in the services was beneficial to boxers.It wasn't beneficial to contenders who found world titles frozen whilst champions were drafted,Guys like Jimmy Bivins were denied title shots because of it.WW2 also screwed up Champions such as Louis,&Zale,they retained their titles but their skills eroded.From March 42 until June 46 Louis did not defend his title.From Feb 42 until Jan46 Zale did not have a contest, the smaller guys could at least have over the weight bouts but for Louis that option was not available.Challengers who were drafted were in the same boat Conn was in the Army from Feb 42 until June 46,he did not have one fight during that time, when he was de- mobbed his career was effectively over, his skills had gone.I don't know if he was drafted, but from Jan41 until Feb 44 Tiger Jack Fox did not enter a ring.Look at the contenders who were eligible for the draft and the enforced hiatus in their careers ,very few came back to be contenders after leaving3/4 years of their prime in the service. That is rather different to 2 years conscription in the UK . The former created a vacuum of skilled fighters. Some more info on Fox.


It is believed that Fox was in Portland from 1941 until 1943. During this time he was working at the Shipyards in Portland and was retired from the sport as a boxer. When professional boxing returned to Portland in the fall of 1942, Fox began training fighters. Two of the fighters he is known to have worked with were Young Otto and Speedy Cannon. Cannon even used the moniker "Young Tiger Jack Fox" for one of his bouts.

Eventually though, in the summer of 1943, Fox joined the U.S. Army with some difficulty in Portland. Fox's main problem was his age, and the belief that he was too old to join the army. Fox was able to produce evidence that he was born in 1907 (his listed age), in order to allow himself to get in. Questions about Fox's age would remain until his death.

Based on the length of stay in the Army which was no more than nine months, it is probable that Fox just trained with the Army, and did not see active combat. Whatever the case may be, Fox would later reveal that the Army got him into better shape and convinced him that he could resume his boxing career in the Spring of 1944 when he left the army

 

Marciano had the benefit of his manager also being the matchmaker for MSG.His era was not a strong one, but probably no worse for quality than the 30's, or the present for that matter.
Being around before the era of big quality heavies was a contributory factor in his success imo, but you can only beat what is around and he did that.

 

It's all swings and round abouts though isn't it? If you take Moore Bivins, Oma, Savold, Elmer Ray and Walcott who did not serve in the armed forces in the case of Moore and Walcott they wound up with the frozen title era benefiting them in that it prolonged their careers.

Compare that with Woodcock and Tommy Jackson.

 

It benefited Walcott certainly ,and that's why we had so many old guys still relevant to the rankings.

 

But they were old and good. It was unique. Old guys used to be old and worn. Suddenly there was these preserved guys around who had experience without being shot. In a lot of ways (apart from Rocky who was cleverly nursed along) the new kids on the block were at a disadvantage starting out. Woodcock, Coley Wallace and Jackson might have been something. Miteff was another. The post war set up stunted some potentially promising careers.

 

Actually I thought this thread was aimed at an apparent "lost generation" who would have been contemporaries of Rocky Marciano.
Marciano had his pro debut in 1947 while he was still amateur, turning professional properly in 1948, and became champion in September 1952.
In that regard I've noted fighters who turned professional after the war. Marciano's peers.
Not sure the relevance of Tiger Jack Fox's experience in WW2, since he's clearly not of that generation.

 

Walcott's career took off because he hooked up with a mobster-manager who kept the Walcott family above the poverty line while he got Jersey Joe the right fights.
Success in boxing is often due to good management, having the right connections, the right support.
Hungry fighters are good fighters, but sometimes there's too much hunger.

 

Norvel Lee the outstanding Amatuer light heavy and heavyweight boxer won the Val barker trophy in the 1952 Olympics but never turned Pro. The 1948 heavyweight gold medallist Rafael Iglesias an Argentinean, turned pro in America and lost his first fight to Bob Dunlap and never boxed again. Bob Dunlap of course lost to Archie Moore, Coley Wallace, Rex Layne. The 1948 light heavyweight Olmpic gold winner, a south African also flopped as a heavyweight pro.

Truth is, the older Pros really were too good for the youngsters coming through during the Marciano era.

Bernie Renolds, Cesar Brion, Coley Wallace were all fair prospects at one time. Layne, Baker, valdes and Lastarza got the build up but didn't really make it.

 

Rex Layne beat Jersey Joe Walcott.

The Olympic champions of the 1920s and '30s were no more successful.

 

Yes, Layne was the one stand out beside Rocky who was able to make a dent on the pre war fighters that dominated the post war championship level scene.

Clarence Henry is another with the right pedigree to have shared Rockys era but even he could not get past Bivins and Moore.