Why was Roy's fall from grace so sudden?

Rock0052 · Nov 11, 2008

First, I ask this not to flame or talk ****- it's an honest question about a fighter who I respect and have been a fan of for years.

What I want to know is how the hell did Roy go from prime to shot so quickly? He took minimal punishment for his entire career going into Tarver 1, yet at that point, you could tell something wasn't the same despite him just winning Ruiz's heavyweight strap in his prior fight and eking out the decision against Tarver. It's been a downhill slide ever since that doesn't need to be documented in detail here.

Was losing the weight (only 10 lbs or so over his usual in-ring weight) the culprit? I know losing too much can be catastrophic in terms of overall physical condition because you're cutting out muscle as well, but could that small amount of weight have been his undoing?

Fighting fighters who would've been tougher all-around matchups (from a physical, mental, and style standpoint) than most of his earlier opposition, most of whom were already beaten before the fight started because of Roy's mystique, perhaps?

Was most of it mental? It really seemed that as time went on, Roy fought more and more cautiously to protect himself, eventually to the point where it was legitimately compromising his ability to win.

Did his lack of fundamental prowess (Roy could always do the "wrong" thing and make it turn out right) mean he was destined for that kind of fall at the first sign of physical erosion?

Or, was it just a combination of these or other factors? Interested to see your feedback. :thumbsup

rydersonthestorm · Nov 11, 2008

Before anyone starts this is not my full opinion but has anyone thought that not taking steroids might have affected him, he out of all boxers bar holyfield is a prime candidate for steroid abuse and was even found to have traces of certasin hormones/steroids after the hall fight i think.

clubberlang · Nov 11, 2008

Rock0052 said:

First, I ask this not to flame or talk ****- it's an honest question about a fighter who I respect and have been a fan of for years.

What I want to know is how the hell did Roy go from prime to shot so quickly? He took minimal punishment for his entire career going into Tarver 1, yet at that point, you could tell something wasn't the same despite him just winning Ruiz's heavyweight strap in his prior fight and eking out the decision against Tarver. It's been a downhill slide ever since that doesn't need to be documented in detail here.

Was losing the weight (only 10 lbs or so over his usual in-ring weight) the culprit? I know losing too much can be catastrophic in terms of overall physical condition because you're cutting out muscle as well, but could that small amount of weight have been his undoing?

Fighting fighters who would've been tougher all-around matchups (from a physical, mental, and style standpoint) than most of his earlier opposition, most of whom were already beaten before the fight started because of Roy's mystique, perhaps?

Was most of it mental? It really seemed that as time went on, Roy fought more and more cautiously to protect himself, eventually to the point where it was legitimately compromising his ability to win.

Did his lack of fundamental prowess (Roy could always do the "wrong" thing and make it turn out right) mean he was destined for that kind of fall at the first sign of physical erosion?

Or, was it just a combination of these or other factors? Interested to see your feedback. :thumbsup
Click to expand...

All mental imo, he lost that self confidence that all great champions have, started doubting himself and his ability to take a punch.
If you think about it he was always very wary of getting tagged and the Tarver knockout must have reinforced that even more!

LiamE · Nov 11, 2008

Balco shut.

ocelot · Nov 11, 2008

LiamE said:

Balco shut.
Click to expand...

Oh, no you didn't? :rofl

Sweet Pea · Nov 11, 2008

He had begun to deteriorate by around 2002, but by that time was admittedly facing lesser opposition and therefore it wasn't really showing substantially. The move up to face Ruiz and the weight draining needed to make his way back down quickened the process greatly, and by the time he faced Tarver it was now apparent to all that he was slowing down.

In the second fight with Tarver, his slowing reflexes allowed him to get caught with a huge punch that he was unable to take, and that more or less shattered his confidence, not to mention continued to quicken the deterioration process. The Glenn Johnson fight proved that he was now a shell of his former self, and afterwards he's only slowed further.

That was 4 years ago, and people still like to think the Calzaghe fight meant anything.

Rock0052 · Nov 11, 2008

hotti_killer said:

Before anyone starts this is not my full opinion but has anyone thought that not taking steroids might have affected him, he out of all boxers bar holyfield is a prime candidate for steroid abuse and was even found to have traces of certasin hormones/steroids after the hall fight i think.
Click to expand...

It's a possibility, but not for the reasons you may think- alot of people can take steroids responsibly without major adverse effects, but you lose the benefit once you stop taking them. If Roy quit using to cut back down to 175, that could very well explain part of it. I think Clubber Lang made a good point with the mental part, as well- I've noticed the same thing he did as far as Roy's wariness to take a shot, even if it meant cutting his own output to do it.

rydersonthestorm · Nov 11, 2008

Sweet Pea said:

He had begun to deteriorate by around 2002, but by that time was admittedly facing lesser opposition and therefore it wasn't really showing substantially. The move up to face Ruiz and the weight draining needed to make his way back down quickened the process greatly, and by the time he faced Tarver it was now apparent to all that he was slowing down.

In the second fight with Tarver, his slowing reflexes allowed him to get caught with a huge punch that he was unable to take, and that more or less shattered his confidence, not to mention continued to quicken the deterioration process. The Glenn Johnson fight proved that he was now a shell of his former self, and afterwards he's only slowed further.

That was 4 years ago, and people still like to think the Calzaghe fight meant anything.
Click to expand...

what do you think about the possibility of steroids, serious question?

Rock0052 · Nov 11, 2008

Sweet Pea said:

He had begun to deteriorate by around 2002, but by that time was admittedly facing lesser opposition and therefore it wasn't really showing substantially. The move up to face Ruiz and the weight draining needed to make his way back down quickened the process greatly, and by the time he faced Tarver it was now apparent to all that he was slowing down.

Click to expand...

Appreciate the input Sweet Pea...I'll have to check out the Woods fight again since I haven't seen it in years to see if it's noticeable there.

rydersonthestorm · Nov 11, 2008

Rock0052 said:

It's a possibility, but not for the reasons you may think- alot of people can take steroids responsibly without major adverse effects, but you lose the benefit once you stop taking them. If Roy quit using to cut back down to 175, that could very well explain part of it. I think Clubber Lang made a good point with the mental part, as well- I've noticed the same thing he did as far as Roy's wariness to take a shot, even if it meant cutting his own output to do it.
Click to expand...

shane mosley also super quick and athletic had taken steroids, these are things that have to be looked at. I can't say as i don't know but couldn't some of this super speed etc have been down to steroids.

rydersonthestorm · Nov 11, 2008

Rock0052 said:

Appreciate the input Sweet Pea...I'll have to check out the Woods fight again since I haven't seen it in years to see if it's noticeable there.
Click to expand...

it isn't noticeable in the woods fight anyway as woods is slow as ****, this curent roy jones would still look prime in speed compared to woods.

majorer · Nov 11, 2008

Rock0052 said:

First, I ask this not to flame or talk ****- it's an honest question about a fighter who I respect and have been a fan of for years.

What I want to know is how the hell did Roy go from prime to shot so quickly? He took minimal punishment for his entire career going into Tarver 1, yet at that point, you could tell something wasn't the same despite him just winning Ruiz's heavyweight strap in his prior fight and eking out the decision against Tarver. It's been a downhill slide ever since that doesn't need to be documented in detail here.

Was losing the weight (only 10 lbs or so over his usual in-ring weight) the culprit? I know losing too much can be catastrophic in terms of overall physical condition because you're cutting out muscle as well, but could that small amount of weight have been his undoing?

Fighting fighters who would've been tougher all-around matchups (from a physical, mental, and style standpoint) than most of his earlier opposition, most of whom were already beaten before the fight started because of Roy's mystique, perhaps?

Was most of it mental? It really seemed that as time went on, Roy fought more and more cautiously to protect himself, eventually to the point where it was legitimately compromising his ability to win.

Did his lack of fundamental prowess (Roy could always do the "wrong" thing and make it turn out right) mean he was destined for that kind of fall at the first sign of physical erosion?

Or, was it just a combination of these or other factors? Interested to see your feedback. :thumbsup
Click to expand...

It seems mysterious. Jumping off steroids have both physical and mental consequences.

SAS2 · Nov 11, 2008

it's not possible to go from 175 to 200+ without enhancement, esp since he was in his 30's by then.

Sweet Pea · Nov 11, 2008

hotti_killer said:

what do you think about the possibility of steroids, serious question?
Click to expand...

From what I understand, that was only proven after one fight, against Richard Hall, to which Jones claims supplements. I don't know. I've never put much merit into those claims because he proved himself just as effective a fighter, and even moreso earlier in his career, without them. If he was indeed taking them often (which there is no proof of at all) around that point of his career then it's possible they effected him negatively once off them, but I'm not willing to place any faith in that. I don't believe it at all really.

majorer · Nov 11, 2008

hotti_killer said:

shane mosley also super quick and athletic had taken steroids, these are things that have to be looked at. I can't say as i don't know but couldn't some of this super speed etc have been down to steroids.
Click to expand...

OF COURSE !

Log in or Sign up

Why was Roy's fall from grace so sudden?

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

clubberlang Active Member Full Member

LiamE Boxing Addict Full Member

ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

majorer Member Full Member

SAS2 Boxing Addict Full Member

Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

majorer Member Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

Why was Roy's fall from grace so sudden?

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

clubberlang Active Member Full Member

LiamE Boxing Addict Full Member

ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

majorer Member Full Member

SAS2 Boxing Addict Full Member

Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

majorer Member Full Member