Why wasn't Ali stopped earlier against Holmes.

Ironically, had Holmes done the "noble" thing and not fought Ali, there'd still be a lot of people thinking Ali could've and would've won that fight.

Such was the cult of personality surrounding Ali. Holmes was never really forgiven for that harsh dose of reality he doled out, but he's the one person in the whole scenario that did his job honestly.

 

I still get angry thinking about this. It was obvious from as early as the third round on that Muhammad had nothing left. That's when it should have been stopped.


For the record,I believe it was purely hubris that encouraged Ali to take the fight. His ego missed the spotlight. He may have blown a lot of money prior to coming back but he still had enough.

 

Holmes and Tunney both suffered by beating an icon.

 

I believe Dundee had to get the okay from Herbert Muhammad before he could stop it.

 

maybe a few. I used to have a recurring dream in the 80s that ali was coming back to beat holmes and Tyson.But you'd need to be a bit out of it to really believe it, much as you'd want it.

 

All this boo-hooing for Ali?

Ali is the guy who tortured a broken down Floyd Patterson, who could barely move because of a bad back, repeatedly taunting him as Uncle Tom and white American throughout the fight. Even Joe Louis was completely disgusted by the spectacle, saying Ali could have knocked Floyd out anytime he wanted. That was the consensus at the time by nearly everyone. Revisionists have tried in recent years to redeem Ali by saying that he was actually trying to keep from hurting Patterson by not unleashing his full attack.

Floyd later commented himself though on how soft Ali's punches were and that he wanted to be KO'd by that one big punch. I'm sure that would have been easier for Floyd, rather than death by a thousand cuts so to speak. Ali certainly didn't oblige.

Ali also has the Ernie Terrell spectacle, where he taunted a blinded Terrell while repeatedly shouting "what's my name?".

Yes, he was a great athlete and showman, but even his staunchest fans will admit Ali had a sadistic side at times, which is one reason why Joe Frazier continued to hate him for the rest of his life.

I'm not an Ali hater. I'm sorry to see him in the condition he's in and he brought boxing tremendous fanfare and he was a true legend. His ego and his need for money got the best of him though regarding the Holmes fight and as far as the beating he took. What's that word again? Karma? Sometimes it comes back to bite people on the ass.

 

Regardless of it being THE Muhammad Ali, whether that be a legend, a saint or a egomaniac sadist, the fight should never have been made.
The man should never have been given a license to box. He was slurring his words since a year or two before the fight, quite badly.

 

People had a lot of magical beliefs about Ali, and he dropped all that weight.

I have a lot of questions about what exactly his Mayo Clinic exam showed. I'm not a neurologist but the explanations for his slurred speech seemed amateurish.

The Berbick fight is really worse. He was a clearly brain damaged person before that fight, and could not even do road work.

 

The really truly sad thing about all of this is that Dundee literally had to forcefully insist that he was stopping the fight. The referee was not going to stop it, regardless of what Dundee said. After Dundee said he was stopping it, the referee asked Muhammad whether he wanted the fight stopped. At that point Dundee forcefully insisted that he was the chief second and was making that decision. It was eerie how hard he had to work to get the referee to recognize the retirement by the chief second.

I would like to respond to the poster who said that Ali was torturing Patterson. I disagree. I think he was trying his best to stop Patterson but was having a difficult time finishing him. I've seen that fight many times and I've noticed that Ali was throwing a lot of blazing fast punches and grunting when he was throwing. He kept a very fast pace and was trying to stop him throughout. I think Ali was actually frustrated by the fact that he couldn't get him out of there. Afterwords, it seemed to me that Ali had newfound respect for Patterson's chin.

 

A joke exam. The public was unaware of how serious Ali's physical condition was before the fight with Holmes. Obviously, looking back, Ali was having problems years before. The doctors had to know and the fight should have never happened. Well, a lot of money was involved.

 

Don't forget Marciano...

 

A thought-provoking post. I don'believe that two wrongs necessarily make a right but yes, there are many out there that think Ali finally got his comeuppence for years of emotionally abusing Frazier, for torturing Terrell, for the alleged draft dodge, for a whole lot of ills many saw as perpetrated by Ali during his boxing career.
I have not encountered it here at ESB/Boxing News 24, but elsewhere I have been surprised at the level of resentment by some towards Ali still.

So I have no doubt that for a few, that Holmes fight was as you say, karma.

 

Yeah, and a few months earlier he knocked Sonny Liston out with one punch.

 

I agree with most of the critiques of Ali, & his treatment of Frazier was unforgiveable. He also played upon RACIST sterotypes there.
And he never actually apologized. Immoral.

Now Terrell...Was he really "blinded", or was that an excuse/

And i do not blame Ali for peppering him with blows & tauting him ith "what'
s my name"?

Terrell had been cruel & disrespectful choosing to disregard his name & identity.
Ali gave him a legal beating when Terrell had a title shot!
Terrell was in the wrong, why should he not be scolded about it & punched WITHIN the rules?