Why were "small" men able to dominate the HW division?

-Patterson was glass-chinned he's carrier is overrated.He was champion in
the weakest era.I think Patterson never beat real good 225+ fighters.
(Patterson was very easy to crush)
- Marciano hadn't good 225+ opponents.
- I think the prime Tunney and Dempsey fought before the steroid and obviously the modern PED era.

 

hgh, steroids and simply having enough good food as kids (including the steroids ect used in food production now)help give recent times many more big men.

i was learning about population stuff the other day, i never really realised how much the population has grown in the last century or so. in 1900 there were less than 2 billion people, now there are 4x as many, so even disregarding the above there will be more big guys.

Ive never been completely convinced that the great small hw's were so good 40lbs wasn't enough of an advantage for good big guys to beat them, but there is certainly some truth to that argument.

the fact that you can make huge money in any weight class now keeps the best smaller guys from moving up too, maybe kovalev(example don't focus on the names) has the speed and skills to do things to wlad that a 200+lber couldn't, but we will never get to find out.

 

Yes, a larger population. Also PEDs, but even without that better nutrittion, & nobody has even mentioned weight training, which was often completely frowned upon ion the past with the mistaken belief you would become "muscle bound". As if nothing could be done to maintain flexibility.

Now the guys then did not have as many large opponents, the average fighter was not as large, & very few very skilled big men.

And the rules? Different size & weight gloves. 15 round fights. More clinching allowed now. The combination prioritizes size & power over speed & endurance.

Steroids were not even INVENTED until 1936. They did not become common in some American sports until the 60's. I do not believe they were at all coomn in boxing before the '80's. as, say, in American baseball.
Even when good random & frequent testing, some designer drugs & HGH cannot be tested for.

All these things contribute to size.

 

of those guys we know vitali took them. beyond that there is no proof, just the same, perfectly valid, suspicions that fall on basically every high level pro sportsman.

 

Right Kingfisher. Though i would add absent particularly suspicious quick gans or improbable total mass, it is not reasonable nor fair to presume they used-though the law of averages says at least one other of those guys likely did.

tinman, that steroids are a big factor-I did not say huge, but that is open to debate-both how big of a factor they are, & what constitutes "huge": does not imply that all, or even most, of those you names MUSt be on steroids.
Might be & must be are very different things.

Someone like Wilder does not have much muscle mass-he has decent muscle mass on the upper body, nothing huge by modern standars-& no legs whatsoever. Less than Holyfield, his measurements are tiny.

Now like Holyfield, he could have used, there are drugs that mazimize strength without adding much bulk.

But I have no reason to feel confident that any of those besides Vitali used.

 

We can never prove a negative. Some will use, at least dabble, & we will never know.
but most of those guys could well be clean too. The uncertainty absent even good reason to be suspicious is huge.

Wilder weighed in at 219 for his recent fight. This is not a SHW, even 225 is borderline.
Of course someone who is so tall witrh long arms will be in some sense "huge".

 

This is a huge factor. A smaller man always has to land more often to win but being smaller usually brings that higher tempo against a giant. With small old style gloves they made more impression with less. The old gloves were lethal. 6oz of horse hair, often 3oz over the knuckle part and the rest in the cuff and thumb. The filling could be massaged away from the knuckles, and once wet the horse hair became hard like sand. So when a smaller guy hit a big man he could make a closer impression each time in comparison to the big man.

With less rounds for a giant to ration out his activity and with the little guy not making the same impression with 10oz baloon gloves too much suits the giant. The giant can set a faster pace per round in championship fights than he would over 15 and not worry so much about the little guy landing so often.

 

There is another factor.

In the days where a world class fighter tried to get their weight as low as possible, a man who came to the ring over 200lbs was a pretty big man.

 

Exactly. Typically that 200lb man was underweight by today's standard. super heavyweight frame did not always equate to super heavyweight pounds. Guys like Max Baer and Firpo would be heavier.

 

In many cases a half century or more ago, the largest men were simply not the best men. For one thing there weren't as many of them and of the ones who were around, a lot of them weren't necessarily great athletes or for that matter ones who knew how to fight "big." Obviously there were exceptions and men like Carnera, Willard, and the Baer brothers are the first to come to mind. But we really didn't see exceptionally good large fighters until about the 80's onward and on a regular basis.

 

Because there weren't many talented big men. The last really good 190 pounder was Holyfield. 25+ years have passed since he moved up.

On a fair score card, Holyfield vs talented big men is 1-4 vs Bowe and Lewis.

These days a skilled super heavyweight has a few inches in reach, height, and a good 20 pounds of muscle on average over his opponent.

This is equivalent to 1-2 weight class advantage.

How often does a very good middle beat a very good light heavy? Rarely.

Even Marvin Hagler knew better than to move up to light heavy, and he was tough as nails.

Can a 190-205 pound man win today at heavyweight Yes. Qualifications:

1 ) He will need pound for pound type of skills
2 ) He will need a lot of power
3 ) He will need to be fast
4 ) He will need a very good chin

 

It is Not a new species of man. These giants look athletic against other giants. They still look awful against faster smaller guys in the gym. But in a real fight the smaller guy won't want to give away so much weight because he can't make an impression with big gloves ...and bulking up effects smaller guys pace so that suits bigger men too.

If Joe Louis fought Buddy Baer today Buddy would be happier with the changes to the sport than Louis would be.

Louis would be 30lb heavier and 30lb slower. Buddy could set a better pace because he's not fighting over 15 potential rounds. In all likelihood Louis throws less than he would if he were 30lb lighter per round and Baer throws a little more punches per round back at him. If Louis is making less impression with the modern gloves it becomes a harder fight than it was in the 1940s. Buddy looks better and Joe Louis looks worse. Louis would still win of course because he was special. But it won't be as sensational.