Why were the old giants bad?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, May 30, 2022.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    17,723
    13,262
    Jun 30, 2005
    That's what I'm most curious about. What evidence do we have that they were physically hindered before, and that PEDs made the difference and shifted them to being physically advantaged?
     
  2. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    25,260
    16,097
    Apr 3, 2012
    Could you direct me to the old time giants who had heart attacks?
     
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,672
    7,633
    Dec 31, 2009
    Could you direct me to a six foot seven inch tall elite level marathon runner?
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    25,260
    16,097
    Apr 3, 2012
    They must have all had heart attacks.
     
    choklab likes this.
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,672
    7,633
    Dec 31, 2009
    Giants, say six foot six tall and above, always sat in the top 1% of the human population. And they still represent that figure.

    Seems to me, Traditional training methods,
    Before improved nutrition, training and science and more readily available information both legal and illegal transformed what was physically achievable, for the first 100 years or so prior to the 1970s, the athletes that dominated boxing got no bigger than Joe Louis. Roughly speaking. And that’s a very long time.

    For that length of time there was no need for cruiserweight. Think about that.

    A conclusion that I consider reasonable is that whilst there always was giants, the advances had not yet arrived that enabled the giant to carry sufficient weight for their size and function as elite level boxers.

    It’s like it took them only so far. They were unable to develop as fighters beyond a certain point. Sometimes it was good enough..but until modern advances came it was never enough to dominate a division.

    It’s went beyond that now. Today we have the modern super heavyweight. And they have taken over the division. It literally is the super heavyweight division now. Just like the Amatuers. Heavyweights still exist. But not in their own division. Like the giant, They carry more weight than before in order to compete with a size of athlete that never existed before. An athlete that could never have exist before. Now it is the old heavyweight that is hindered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
    Jason Thomas likes this.
  6. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    25,260
    16,097
    Apr 3, 2012
    No, it isn’t. There are more big guys to choose from now. The NBA didn’t get big because of changes in training.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,672
    7,633
    Dec 31, 2009
    There’s more of everything now. Percentages stayed the same. Google it.

    “In the US population, about 14.5 percent of all men are six feet or over. Roughly 1% of women are 6 feet tall or taller. The equivalent height cutoff for men (only 1% of population taller) is about 6ʹ4″.
     
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    25,260
    16,097
    Apr 3, 2012
    Yes, there are more big people now, even if you believe that the percentages stayed the same. Glad we agree.
     
    choklab and cross_trainer like this.
  9. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    17,723
    13,262
    Jun 30, 2005
    People are taller on average today than they were a hundred years ago, though. So that 1% figure of a 6'4" cutoff is unlikely to correspond to the 1% cutoff a hundred years ago. The 1% mark back then might have been shorter than 6'4"
     
    Pepsi Dioxide likes this.
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,672
    7,633
    Dec 31, 2009
    It’s probably only a marginal increase in a country like America where, until the rest of the the world caught up, always was a much taller nation of people.

    Before the Second World War, Ethnic Europeans born in America were much taller than Europeans in actual Europe.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    17,723
    13,262
    Jun 30, 2005
    Arguably true, but many of the giants today come from non-American countries.
     
  12. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,536
    2,370
    Apr 23, 2022
    it does not matter how many big people in world there be. only matter is how many big man try the boxing.
     
    choklab and cross_trainer like this.
  13. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,549
    May 30, 2019
    Well, the NBA has the same average height since the early 1960s, give or take one inch. The biggest difference between pre-1960 NBA and post-1960 NBA is massive talent pool increase due to basketball becoming more popular and the league giving black players fair chances, not because people got bigger.

    It's not similar situation to boxing at all.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,672
    7,633
    Dec 31, 2009
    Yes the rest of the world caught up. Standard of living improved to American levels and nations were able to reach their full growth potentials.
     
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    25,260
    16,097
    Apr 3, 2012
    Do you have a source for that? Wilt was playing against small guys.

    Also, this thread is talking about boxers in the 30s or earlier.