Why were the old giants bad?

So it's fine to cherrypick undersized Knicks team without their starting center, but I can't use the best team in the league?

Maybe it's better to look at averages then?

2021 (in shoes):

PG: 6’2.5″ and 192 lbs
SG: 6’4.3″ and 200 lbs
SF: 6’6.3″ and 213 lbs
PF: 6’8.3″ and 227 lbs
C: 6’10.5″ and 246 lbs

Average: 6'6.2" and 214 lbs

1962 (without the shoes with college weights):

PG: 6'2" and 183 lbs
SG: 6'3.6" and 190 lbs
SF: 6'5.4" and 209 lbs
PF: 6'7.3" and 213 lbs
C: 6'10.1" and 229 lbs

Average: 6'5.6" and 204 lbs

Staggering half of an inch and 10 lbs difference. Without taking into account that 1960s numbers are from college.

 

Didn't the article posted above give the 3 point shot as the reason for the NBA players becoming smaller on average than they were 10 years ago? Apparently the teams want players who are 3 point threats over big men who mostly play inside the 3 point line and score mostly at 2 point range? I suspect that most 3 point shooters are not 7' tall? Maybe eventually taller players will become 3 point threats and the average height in the league will increase again?
The 3 point shot has changed the league, change the rules again, take away the 3 point shot and the players will get bigger.

 

You don't know much about basketball, do you?

 

The issue is that the players are bigger. I wouldnt be surprised if the Warriors are the smallest team of the last few decades.

I pulled up the Lakers roster and it looks nothing like that.

 

We have data for that, the league has got smaller since late 1980s.

It's so clear none of you have any clue about basketball...

 

I’d dunk on you, gramps.

 

So you admit you were wrong?

 

I think you're into something. 2 of the most famous big men, Carnera and Willard, were strong men/circus freaks and did farm work before getting into boxing with no amateur experience (last I checked). It wasn't unusual for boxing promoters to take big guys who didn't have a solid foundation in sports and rushed them towards the title so that they could become a "freak show" attraction. The novelty of seeing a modern day Goliath squashing normal sized mortals.

I'm not saying they'd be as good as Lewis or Wladmir, but I see no reason to doubt old school super heavies would do better if they played sports as children and had a solid background in the amateurs before going pro. Willard also had a very nasty, arrogant attitude, neglected his training, and underestimated some opponents (most infamously, Dempsey, and he paid the price).

The trainers of big men back then seemed to focus too much on power and overwhelming the opponent instead of having solid fundamentals and fighting tall.

 

Everything I said has been true so far.

 

That played against small guys? Guys who were the same size as modern sized centers?

 

I've thought a lot about this, but I'm not sure I've found the answer. I think one place to start is the British martial and American athletic cultures that valued skill, discipline, fundamentals, and stoicism over flash, athleticism, and size.

In boxing especially there seems to have been folk wisdom that you didn't want to be too big. People today like to believe in some kind of efficient markets hypothesis for all things but if you look at history people maintain incorrect ideas forever.

But since there is a lot of skill to boxing, if you don't attract a good trainer you won't be among the best especiallysince part of being a good trainer is having the right connections.

Also, by the time Primo came along there were a lot of useful PEDs widely available in terms of stimulants. In his time anabolics were mostly being looked at to treat breast cancer, aging, and sex/menstruation issues but by the late 40s/early 50s you never know.

 

You are making a false statement with the exception of cherry picking the Warriors as a representation of what a normal nba team looks like, which is disingenuous.

 

I provided league average heights for all positions. I can't be any more objective than that...

By the way, Warriors aren't even that undersized. They have a big SG, above average SF and average PG. Their bigs are undersized, but they are not small overall. I could pick quite a few smaller teams than that - for example Miami which just lost ECF.

 

Coming in late on this - so apologies for any points already mentioned.

Def. with a larger field of so called SHWs in the HW div., the chances of seeing greater skills than we might’ve seen in like sized fighters of the past increases accordingly - just based on pure stats and probabilities.

Then, even for SHWs, there is the diminished advantage of size over an increasingly similarly sized field. A guy like Carnera in his day was the exception in size - the crux of his perceived advantage - therefore not as considerately trained and educated as a his smaller counterparts.

To gain the edge, today’s SHWs are under greater demand to actually improve their skills and distinguish themselves - their size not being the relative advantage it might’ve been in a bygone era.

How many deemed SHWs are there actually in the HW div. as opposed to sub SHW sized fighters?

Just as the chances of a better skilled SHW coming to the fore go up with the increasing SHW size pool, the chances of seeing another Louis or Ali come along conversely decline relative to the shrinking pool of similarly sized fighters competing at HW.

Have sub SHW sized necessarily been beaten down and out of the HW div. or have their numbers been reduced due to other factors also?

Say you’re a solidly muscled, 6’3” with bottom low fat % weighing about 220 lbs entertaining a boxing career. Too big for CW but perhaps you assume you’re too small for today’s HW div. What do you do? Is there a self cull happening?

We have Usyk moving from CW to HW - which is great. I think we need to see quite a bit more - but so far, so very good. He seems the ideal rep. for a markedly reduced size pool at HW.

If we saw more like Usyk chancing their arms - one might see some shift in the perceived balance of power as it pertains to size at HW - with an increased success rate for the smaller but likely faster and better skilled fighters who will still have sufficient size to hurt and/or KO opposition even if that opposition is several inches taller and 10s of pounds heavier.