Wilder's resume

If you go into a fight with zero training camp or gameplan against a well-prepared and juiced to the gills elite opponent, you might get KO'd earlier than usual, especially if you've picked up more wear and tear since your first KO defeat.

I suspect Wilder's team control the selection of opponents so I doubt he avoided anyone but it's possible that the drug test was orchestrated to avoid having to fight a prime or near-prime Povetkin in Russia. AJ didn't fight that Povetkin and by the same logic AJ ducked Ortiz in 2016, who was likely older than Povetkin.

Fury beat Wilder fair and square but the narrative surrounding Wilder is absurd. He didn't lose to a morbidly obese tomato can after all.

 

Wlad brutally KO'd a prime Pulev within 5 rounds just one fight prior and was on the verge of KO'ing AJ 2 years later, with 17 months of inactivity, being previously defeated and fighting away from home where he wasn't clinching much. In order to avoid getting KO'd or even badly hurt by Wlad (even the non-clinching Wlad) Jennings must have had a good chin and defensive skills like Ibragimov and Haye, especially considering he landed plenty of punches of his own. More recently, we've seen an early 30's and much more worn version of Jennings going the distance with Joyce in Britain, giving him a good fight and Joyce is a hard puncher and can be a relentless pressure fighter. Jennings' best wins at the time were stoppages of Liakhovich, Fedosov and Szpilka and outpointing Mike Perez, which in 2014 had him at No.6 best HW in the world in The Ring rankings and Ortiz not only outboxed him in a competitive fight but brutally stopped him inside 7.

Whyte, Parker and Chisora don't have a single win as good as Ortiz's over Jennings and they have plenty of defeats and controversial decisions over "lesser" opposition. Ortiz also shutout pressure fighter Hammer at an official 40 and post-Wilder 1, who beat K. Johnson, Teper and KO'd Price and went the distance with a younger Povetkin in Russia and Yoka recently in France. Ortiz's performances against journeymen like Dave Allen and Cojanu are better than what all of his rival contenders managed (Whyte, Yoka, Parker, Dubois, Ajagba) sometimes much better and Yoka, Dubois and Ajagba all faced more worn versions than Ortiz faced. I don't care for the Thompson or Scott wins because Thompson was decrepit (though he went the distance with Takam and Pulev in his previous fights) and Scott made no attempt to fight and fell to the floor a dozen times.

 

The punch stats in Wilder-Duhaupas were extremely one-sided, there's no question to me that Wilder won every round and was never at risk of losing the fight. Duhaupas was a big, durable, relentless pressure fighter who did damage to Wilder's left eye but he was never close to winning and Wilder was never hurt. It's not remotely comparable to Parker-Takam or Whyte-Chisora, which were both very close fights in terms of punches landed and rounds won. The Charr win before Duhaupas fought Wilder proved that he was decent, more proven than Ruiz up to that point anyway. I don't think Ruiz would even give Wilder as much trouble as Duhaupas did.

 

Claiming that Whyte has a better record than Fury is so stupid that it's an automatic mutable offence.

 

It's bizarre to me that you claim that Wilder didn't outbox Duhaupas. Duhaupas busted Wilder's left eye up but what rounds can you give him? Wilder dominated the fight and Duhaupas is much taller, more rangy (82' reach) and more fleet of foot than morbidly obese LHW Ruiz. Stiverne had those advantages over Ruiz as well, as well as much more punching power and superior amateur pedigree: Ruiz lost to M. Wilson in the amateurs and scraped past 40 year old retired Arreola, Stiverne beat Price and Helenius in the amateurs and comfortably defeated a near-prime Arreola x2. Ruiz also got stopped by Michael Hunter, who Hammer beat in the amateurs and he struggled more with a much older and less fresh version of K. Johnson than Hammer did.

Ruiz beat AJ but AJ doesn't have good punch resistance and make a huge blunder to trade with a fighter with faster hands and a better chin. Ruiz took AJ's hook and follow up shot well and won the subsequent exchange but he still got dropped in the 3rd round by a fighter with far less power than Wilder. The Breazeale performance is exhibit A: AJ is a combination-accumulation puncher, Wilder is a one-shot KO artist. AJ couldn't legitimately stop old Takam who Povetkin had already bombed out, 41 year old, retired, supposedly chinny Wlad was stopped on his feet while defending himself at the end of the 11th after taking many flush shots from AJ through the fight, AJ couldn't drop or hurt Parker (unlike Whyte and Chisora) and he couldn't stop Ruiz x2, so I regard his power as being overrated. Wilder's speed is definitely superior to AJ's according to AJ fanboy Wlad; he describes Wilder as being "extremely fast", along with having more experience, length and being highly unpredictable. It's easy to forget this though because Fury is very fast for a giant himself (faster than Wlad) but old Wlad had a footspeed advantage over AJ. Peter got battered by Wlad and I don't think his punch resistance was ever the same again, ditto Stiverne post-Wilder. Molina stunned Wilder but he has some power, it's Molina's chin and mentality which are questionable and Wilder recovered well, as he did against southpaw power puncher Ortiz. I've argued for Ortiz's quality because his comparative wins are very good: [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/ortizs-comparative-wins.672970/[/url]

It's not certain but I suspect that Wilder does have a better chin than AJ, or at least better powers of recovery. When AJ is hurt he stays hurt and the only man to stop Wilder is a bigger puncher with far more in his arsenal than the only man to stop AJ. Wilder's inside fighting ability isn't as bad as is made out: he's strong, can throw good hooks and uppercuts up close (Duhaupas) and wraps opponents up better than AJ when he needs to. People underrate Fury's inside fighting skills because they don't want to accept how versatile he is. But this would all be irrelevant when fighting Ruiz because Wilder's length, footspeed and power advantages are enormous, so Ruiz would struggle to close the gap and whenever he did he'd get tied up. Wilder wouldn't exchange with Ruiz up close because that isn't Wilder's style and he's already seen that's a dangerous game to play.

When I google "heavyweight rankings" and see the "top 30", I struggle to see guys who I'd favour Ruiz to beat. Maybe Martin, Kownacki or Whyte, Ortiz may finally be too old now but even then it's debatable but I'd strongly favour Ajagba, Dubois, Yoka, Hunter, Wallin, Hrgovic, Hughie and Kabayel to beat him, even guys outside official lists like Faust, Jalolov and Huni. People don't want to accept that Ruiz is a weak fringe contender who hit the jackpot against a vulnerable champion, which the original odds of 25-1 would suggest was the case.

I'll accept that Stiverne lost to King, as ridiculous as the stoppage was, but it can't be used to discredit Stiverne's chin as some try to do because Stiverne lost through referee incompetence/corruption, not through being hurt, let alone dropped or KO'd.

Continued...

 

I don't have a problem with Wilder's pre-Stiverne can crushing and journeyman bashing: Wilder started boxing at 20 and had less than 3 years of amateur experience, AJ started at 18 and had 6 years of amateur experience. Wilder needed to be brought along more slowly so he could gain experience and develop. I don't deny that pre-Fury, AJ faced the better competition but Ortiz (who Wilder beat twice) is on a par with 39 year old Povetkin and Stiverne was better than Ruiz (who smashed AJ) so the gap in competition is not as great as most think and I regard the loss to fringe contender Ruiz as a huge black mark, which also put a different light on his wins over Parker and therefore Whyte. Wilder also had a draw with a rusty and poorly conditioned but still very good Fury in a fairly close fight, albeit one that Fury should have won. On top of that Wilder had a longer title run than AJ and HW is the division with the greatest puncher's chance. I'm not saying that Wilder's resume is categorically superior to AJ's but it is debatable.

If AJ loses, draws or wins controversially against Usyk, it looks bad. Usyk is a cruiser with unexceptional power even at that weight, is almost 35 after a long amateur career which is not good for a smaller man who depends on speed, agility, stamina and reflexes and is bulking up to go for a KO due to AJ's absurd institutional advantages (which further his hinders speed, agility and stamina and makes it more likely he gets KO'd by a defensive AJ looking for counters). It would still be AJ's 2nd best win though if it's legit and give him the advantage over Wilder in my book. But H2H I am not at all confident that AJ beats Wilder, Joyce, Hrgovic or even Dubois. AJ isn't as fast, agile, long or defensively skilled as Fury and if Wilder lands bombs on AJ's more fragile chin he could very well take him out. Wilder is older now and is coming off a defeat so I'd favour AJ slightly but it's a question of who lands first for me.

 

Hearn was "promoting" Ortiz in late 2016 when he made AJ-Molina and Ortiz-Allen on the same card: far less competitive than swapping Molina with Ortiz. AJ could have fought Usyk when Usyk was 32.5 but they pursued mandatories with Miller and 39.5 year old Pulev instead and would have aged Usyk out further if they could have. Neither AJ or Wilder were willing to travel (as their respective career records strongly indicate) and Fury is tied up with the Wilder trilogy. In conclusion, AJ has been protected as Wilder has, always fighting with huge institutional advantage against prohibitive underdogs.