Will Bud's victory light a fire under Usyk?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Sep 13, 2025.


  1. MURK20

    MURK20 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’m not trying to frame anything to create a narrative. Your consistency makes you predictable. When you say that Usyk’s accomplishments are much more impressive with such conviction, I have to ask which fighter(s) that he’s beaten will rank higher than Canelo on most people’s ATG lists? I would bet zero. None are all time greats. Canelo filled “the face of boxing” vacuum soon after Mayweather’s retirement and his bouts with GGG. He was a dominant champion with the exception of the excellent Bivol. Always the heavy favorite because he should be. Usyk is very impressive but he doesn’t have a Canelo caliber opponent on his resume. Bud showed us that he’s levels above one greatest fighters in recent years.
     
  2. Kiwi Fish

    Kiwi Fish Active Member Full Member

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    Even the old Briedis that Opetaia fought would beat everyone else currently in Cruiserweoght and give every heavyweight not named Usyk a hard night at least.

    I agree though in that P4P Opetaia is ranked above every other cruiser and current heavyweight except for Usyk and maybe Parker.
     
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  3. Droid

    Droid New Member Full Member

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    He isn't a type to get inspired suddenly. IMO his mental balance is intricate and finely tuned. That religion thing is part of the system too. It doesn't need any changes, they would be to the worse.
     
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  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Yes you are. You could've simply answered the questions but you chose not to because you know I'm right

    What Usyk has been doing is unquestionably much more difficult, risky, and impressive and instead of answering the questions I posed you move the goal posts and try to get me to answer your questions instead

    Usyk, in complete contrast to Crawford, won and unified all his world titles in his opponent's backyards on a deck stacked against him or on the road and he's never had home country advantage sans arguably when he fought Dubois in Poland in any of his world title fights or fights at the world level and he's only had a combined 2 home judges for all of those fights and 0 home country refs

    Conversely, Crawford has fought 41 of his 42 fights in his home country, has only fought in his foreign opponent's backyard once in 42 fights, every world title he won was in his country sans Burns, every world champion he's fought sans Burns was fought in his country, and every reigning foreign champ he's fought sans Burns had to bring their titles to his country even when they were the champ and he was the challenger

    in the US

    Gamboa - US ref and 3 US judges

    Beltran - US ref and 3 US judges

    Jean - US ref and 3 US judges

    Diaz - US ref and 3 US judges

    Postol - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral judge

    Indongo - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral

    Horn - US ref, 1 US judge, 1 Australian , 1 neutral - Horn was the champ, Crawford challenger

    Brook - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral

    Khan - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral

    Egis - US ref and 3 US judges

    Avanesyan - US ref and 3 US judges

    Madrimov - US ref and 2 US judges, one neutral - Madrimov was the champ, Crawford challenger

    Clenelo - US ref and 3 US judges - Clenelo was the champ, Crawford challenger



    Crawford's solitary fight outside the US in his opponent's backyard

    Burns - US ref THREE NEUTRAL judges


    Usyk has had TWO home country judges combined in ALL his world title fights and fights at the world level and ZERO home country refs

    From his 10th to 23rd fight he has only had 1 home country judge in 2 fights and no home country refs

    It's like a complete inversions of what Crawford has had


    Crawford was a massive weight bully who when he moves up in weight has very often been the much or bigger man, rarely smaller and extremely rarely if ever at all much smaller and he has never once been at a reach disadvantage

    Usyk has been beating opponent sans 1 or 2 fights his size, bigger, much or way bigger who hold huge physical advantages over him, huge physical advantages Crawford has never once had to contend with or overcome, let alone in their backyards on a deck stacked against him or on the road

    Crawford has barely fought any legit punchers or KO artists, especially ones his size, and one of the rare occasions he got dropped by Mean Machine who was at worst his size, let alone fought many KO artists and legit punchers bigger or way bigger than him in their backyards or on the road. Crawford has fought a ton of featherfists and average punchers and often been the much or bigger man whilst doing so or, rarely the smaller man or if not roughly his size

    Usyk has run a gauntlet of murderous punchers, KO artists and legit bangers not only his size, but very often way bigger, including a bunch of the biggest punchers in the sport not just literally but also some of the biggest P4P

    Now all you have to do is answer the questions I posed in my previous post and I'll be happy to address yours regarding Crawford beating Clenelo
     
  5. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Crawford was coming in as high as 153 at 135

    157 at 140

    169.8 at 154

    He weighed more for his 154 debut in his 4th weight class than his career 154 opponent did and he had a way longer reach than them too

    Here he is six years ago weighing in the ''160s-170s'' looking as lean as a greyhound

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    ''This is the first fight where I don't have to cut muscle'' -- Terence Crawford

    His S&C trainer

    ''It's a much easier cut because he doesn't have to cut so much muscle''

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    Weigh in

    He looks super lean with extremely low body fat weighing a couple of pounds less than GGG's very consistent fight night weight. Looking crazy lean like that weighing 35lbs more than the weight you started out at is crazy

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    Bomac

    “Man, listen, he should’ve been at 168 a long time ago,” McIntyre told The Ring. “But I was making him take advantage of ‘35, ‘40, ‘47.” i


    How can you move up six divisions and never be much smaller whilst still looking very lean and never once being at a reach disadvantage in 42 fights?

    I rest my case


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  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Those bigger guys Usyk has fought have been embarrassed by much smaller opponents making it questionable how big an advantage their size actually is

    Joshua lost to the smaller Ruiz, Chisora lost to the smaller Haye, and Dubois was dropped 3 times by the smaller Lerena and had a questionable stoppage in his favor. If these incidents hadn't occurred the size gap argument would be far more compelling.
     
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  7. LoveThis

    LoveThis Sweet Science Full Member

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    P4p is a lacking concept anyways.

    I think it is a bad answer for fight fans who want a title for the best boxer in the world, but not on a head to head basis, where the big guys would win, but who is the best boxer in terms of
    - skill and technique
    - iq and craft
    - experience and resume
    (Where resume is debatable, when you are looking for the current best boxer)

    Crawford is a great boxer and i didn't need canelo to tell me that. It didn't add as much to my view of him as for others it seems.

    It's too hard to compare Usyk and Crawford on an actual competence basis to really make claims for one to be better than the other.

    But resume wise usyk takes it easily.

    Only when you look at the resume popularity contest crawford might win because of this fight. But canelo is on the slide and has been for a few fights. Nevertheless great showing of crawford. For me personally it still doesn't rank as high as beating a way bigger career best looking joshua in their second fight or fury in 2 other fights...
     
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  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Speaking of ''smaller guys'' massive weight bully Crawford has forged a career beating them at home on a deck stacked against them or at worst vs fighters roughly his size, whilst rarely being the smaller man, extremely rarely if ever at all much or way smaller and he's never been at a reach disadvantage even once

    And he's been running a gauntlet of featherfists and average punchers and barely any legit punchers or KO artists his size. One of the rare instance he did he got ''embarrassed'' and dropped. Now imagine what would've happened had Mean Machine had 15-60lbs on him and a much longer reach. Yeah, exactly. Crawford is out cold on his back or face


    A prime Clenelo was shut out by a past prime way smaller Floyd

    A prime Clenelo was embarrassed and outboxed by a way smaller Khan for 5 rounds

    A prime Clenelo needed the to judges to wave their magic wands to transform his Ls in Ws in numerous fights

    If these incidents hadn't occurred Crawford beating Clenelo would be more impressive, especially if Crawford wasn't virtually the same size as Clenelo

    This version of Clenelo hasn't scored a stoppage win in 4 years despite cherrypicking like crazy. The giants Usyk fought weren't all way bigger and heavier than him they were all either murderous punching KO artists or big punchers who still had their speed, sharpness and power and had been knocking out their opponents

    Dubois has a KO 95%
    AJ KO 89%
    Belly has a KO 70% one but he had KO'd or stopped 4 of his last 5 opponents
    Chisora has a KO 63% but he was coming off some of the best KOs of his career and was hitting harder than ever

    And Usyk was giving away huge amounts of weight, and natural physical advantages to some of them. None of them were on a four year KO drought :lol:

    If size advantage isn't a big deal then why is Crawford beating a slightly bigger well past prime four year KO drought Clenelo in his own country such a big deal? Crawford would get violently KO'd by many LHWs, other SMWs, let alone CWS and HWs

    And unlike Crawford, Chisora has fought loads of big punchers, including the murderous punching Haye. If you keep fighting big or huge punchers you are going to get KO'd or knocked down sometimes. Ask Crawford who has barely fought any and one of the few times he did he got dropped. He was even badly hurt and ''embarrassed'' by a way smaller blown up 126 Gamboa who has like 2 KOs at 135 in like 13 fights IIRC

    Dubois was not dropped x 3 by Lerena he suffered a torn ACL and voluntarily took a knee x 2 when no punches landed

    Fat Andy was not smaller than AJ he was 21lbs and over 45lbs heavier respectively in both their fights. He might have shorter and fatter but he was much heavier and he has crazy fast hands for a HW and he can crack

    You stick Crawford in with massive punching LHWs, CWs, HWs who are way bigger and heavier than him not just a few pounds with big or huge reach advantages, and in their backyards and he's getting flatlined
     
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  9. fencik45

    fencik45 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Especially when ruling for a decade probably means winning ten fights or less these days.
     
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  10. like a boss

    like a boss Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In the most recent Ring P4P rankings, Usyk was 1, Inoue 2 and Crawford 3. It will be interesting to see how the cards fall when they update them after Crawford's master class against the two divisions higher, 4 belt champion Canelo.

    I would elevate Crawford to 1 but it's not my problem to sort out, it's theirs.