Will Oscar be ranked ATG only in hindsight?

"All-Time Great" is kind of broad, it all depends on one's definition, but some of the comments made here are ridiculous.

Oba Carr being a big fight at the time?

Comparing Julio Cesar Chavez in 1998 to Joe Calzaghe now because they're the same age?

It's not some inside information to know that different fighters peak and age at different ages.

 

De La Hoya is one of the tougher fighters to rank because of all the debatable decisions he's been in. You can nitpick all you want (Whitaker was past his prime, Quartey was inactive for a year and a half, Trinidad was weight-drained, Mosley was less experienced at the weights of 147 and 154), but very few guys are completely reckless in their choice of opposition, and there's always something you can bring up to diminish the opposition. Oscar has fought a terrific level of opposition.

The inconclusive nature of some of these fights (Whitaker, Quartey, Mosley II, Trinidad), with no follow up fight, makes him tougher to rank.

 

I think its pretty fair to say that Chavez was past his prime in both the DelaHoya fights. His recent performances against guys like Randall and a few others began to show that he was deteriorating, and after nearly 100 pro fights, who wouldn't be? Although I give credit to Delahoya for most of his wins, I find it a stretch of the truth that Chavez was anywhere near his best.

 

I have all De La Hoya pro fights on tape/disc including his pro debut with Bob Arum sayin exactly the same he's sayin about Kelly Pavlik now, that he was going to be the greatest star in the business and I am not sayin he is not a big name but who did he really beat to become such a great welterweight - Whitaker the way he did? Kamau, Camacho, Rivera, Charpentier, Carr? He had a great chance to prove he really had that extra something with Chavez in 98 and the big boys ( expression used by Hoya) - Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley and Gatti (2001) and I say that he did not prove to be special there... Anyway, an Olympic Gold who beat Rafael Ruelas in two rounds in 95, JCC in 4 and knocked out Vargas the way he did in 2002 is not going down in history as ordinary...Ray Robinson, Amstrong, Gavilan, Burley, Leonard, Basilio, Napoles, Ryan, Walcott, Griffith, Hearns, Walker, Britton, Lewis, Ross, McLarnin, Rodriguez, Graham, Whitaker and Duran are all considered better in the 147 pound division by Gavin Evans, surely nobody is going to say he's an ATG at 135, 140 or 154 pounds (?)...

 

Ok ok. I just don't like that when a good fighter gets old and looses his first fight he is instantly considered to be shot and easily beaten, and no credit is given to the fighter who beats him.

Chavez might be a bad example, but I would still say that De la Hoya should have some credit for those wins, and it is not a very good argument to say that he is not an ATG because he "struggled briefly" against Chavez.

 

I had it a draw, And running away for 3 - 4 rounds in the fight of your life won't ever earn you a W in my book.

 

Thats not the reason. Chavez has nothing to do with it.

He STRUGGLED MIGHTILY againt Quartay, and took an L to Tito and Shane. All 3 opponents were young champions like HIM, not OLD ones, and he lost all 3 in some peoples eyes :verysad

 

I feel sorry for Oscar because he has been shafted in his time. He deserves a win over Tito on his resume, as well as Mosley.

 

He's had more controversial decisions go his way than go against him.

 

Oscar had several controversial decisions in his career and to be honest it works both ways, in his wins as well as losses. In his early days his career was orchestrated in a brilliant way by Arum to have Oscar fighting smaller guys and fighting some at the perfct time so the advantage would always be
Oscars. quartey had not fought in 17 months and was semi-retired when Oscar fought him and yet many thought Oscar lost that fight. Whitaker was definitely over the hill as was shown by his pathetic performances in the 2 fights before he fought Oscar. Weak-hitting rivera knocked him down twice and Hurtado was ahead on points going into the 11th before he got careless and was popped by Whitaker. And a lot of people thought Oscar last that fight too.
In the fight of the century and the most important fight of his life he ran away in the championship rounds from tito. A lot of Oscarsexuals say he was told to run away by his corner but not true. He was told to STAY away .. big difference. Then, who many consider Oscars career defining fight, he fought Vargas. For years Oscar said he would never fight Vargas .... NEVER ... as he would never let him have that big payday. That would be his punishment.
Guess what? In the three fights before Oscar decided to fight him, Vargas had been brutalized by Trinidad, knocked down by rivera, wobbled repeatedly by his former sparring partner Shibata flores, had been sent to the hospital twice overnight he was beaten up so bad and had been knocked down 5 times. All in the 3 fights before he fought Oscar. See why Oscar changed his mind?? Then there is the strange ending to the Hopkins fight, the absurd decision given to Oscar in the Sturm fight, and now losing 4 out of his last 5 fights (yes that was a loss to Sturm).
A lot of questions here. He wi ll probably be recognized as an ATG but the boxing gurus will always have an asterik in their minds next to his name.

 

You have to learn how score fights.

 

I agree. He got wins over Whitaker, Quartey and Sturm. But Mosley and Tito were bigger fights. IMO.

 

Why was the Mosley rematch a bigger fight than the Whitaker and Quartey fights?

There was a revenge factor for Mosley, but Mosley was on a slump, having not won a fight in over 2 years.

Whitaker was still the linear champ @ 147 and ranked near the top of the p4p rankings. Quartey was an undefeated long time welterweight titleholder (he got stripped for fighting De La Hoya). He was inactive for awhile, but his last fight should've been a win over Lopez. He jabbed Lopez's head off.

 

You guys crack me up....you are so quick to jump all over the "high level of competition" Oscar has fought over his career...and then overhype people like Cotto who has fought...hmmm....Mosley...and..hmmm.....at the time of all of Oscars big fights, (Whitaker, Quartey, Camacho, Chavez, to name only a few) nobody was saying they were mismatches or any of the crap you guys are spewing from your "Arm Chair Quarterback" positions....back then, they were big fights....big fights which are now easily dismissed by so called "boxing fans" who suffer from A.D.D. and can't get thier memories in proper order. Did he get some decisions that were close that could of gone either way...yes....did he also lose some decisions that could of gone either way...yes.....did he stand in their as a warrior against anybody he fought....yes....with the exception of the liver-shot by B-hop, has anyone brutally beaten Oscar...NO....he has been in every fight he has fought in (exception/B-hop)...and perhaps the biggest thing that nags all you Oscar-haters is that fact alone...you want to see him badly beaten and up until this point...it has not happened...even in the B-hop fight when he went down after the liver-shot...it wasn't the punishing way you were hoping for.....so, to end this post, I only ask that you put things into perspective when rating a boxer....you can't put other fighters on pedistals and others in the basement...especially when you look at the talent some of these fighters have fought in their careers....casing point: Cotto/Williams/Cintron/Margarito have not fought the level of talent that Dela Hoya fought all along his career....they may never have a resume that reads like Oscar's.....when you look at it that way and still find ways to detract from his amazing career I find it difficult to really take anything you post seriously. End of rant.

 

Oscar an ATG??>.


NO!!!!!!!