Will Pavlik show us anything new this time?

i agree....but just because they are saying certain things(like making excuses for the loss) doesnt mean they arent working on new things...giving interviews and talking to the press is all about perception....they could be telling you "yeah i was sick and my elbow was ****ed up" and at the same time behind closed doors they could be saying "we got ****ed up and we have some work to do"......

i fully admit that you could be 100 percent correct and they really believe they lost because kelly wasnt 100 percent....well see how kelly looks in his next few outings...if hes shown some new wrinkles and improvement, id fully expect them to still play the "we werent right for the hopkins fight" card

 

Thanks man...

But the problem is, in every interview since the fight, Kelly and his camp have said the reason they lost was Kelly's health going in. And if he truely believes that (or worse yet, if Jack Loew truely has him believing that), then they are going to ignore the real reasons why he lost. And if they ignore it, it will always be a weakness.

That is what scares me.

Before the Hopkins fight, I pointed out that in Kelly's previous fights, when he was off balance or better yet, not set, he simply did not throw. Also that when he was faced with a defensive angle from his opponent (vs Taylor the second time it was most evident) he at most flicked out the jab and COULD NOT DOUBLE IT UP...and therefore couldnt create his own offense.

Its the two main reasons I picked Hopkins.

Now, I could see that before the fight...as Bernard's camp obviously did also. And, we all saw it during the fight. Yet Kelly's camp continues to push that the main issue was health.

Again, that doesnt bode well for him going into camp and working on angles and working on creating offense without being in a set position. That also isnt going to fix his corner issues as well.

I mean, I know Jack Loew is like a father to him. I get that. But even if we completely ignore the fact that he did a terrible job that night (his lack of a plan b...his obsession with KOing a fighter with one of the better chins in boxing history...and my god when his corner said the words "dont worry, even if we lose, your still the MW champ" IN THE NINTH FRIGGIN ROUND!!!" I almost lost it)...it is HIS responsibility to sit Kelly down, work on the film with him and SHOW him that health had little to do with the outcome. Its also his responsibility to figure out WHAT went wrong, then draw up a training regimine around refining that weakness into a strength. Remember, bad habits begin and end in the gym.

The worst thing is tho...I think Loew knows the truth and may be building up the health issue in Kelly's mind to mask the terrible job he himself did. Which is unfortunate.

Hope Im wrong about that...but...?

 

First thing Pav has to do is get rid of Loew....as long as he's still there....he won't change a thing.

At this stage Loew is doing nothing for him and thats a shame because Pavlik is the goddamn undisputed MW champ and he needs a strong base.

When a trainer resorts to telling his fighter to hit the other fighter low because he doesn't have any other advice......he needs to go right away.

 

I kinda just went through my REAL thought on the health issue above, but let me further elaborate on it.

Kelly looks at Jack Loew as a father in many ways. He trusts the man unconditionally. Jack Loew considers Kelly his son in many ways...and he wants the best for the kid.

These things are obvious.

BUT, Kelly Pavlik is also Jack Loew's meal ticket. Im sure he realized this when Kelly started destroying kids in his gym some decade or so ago. He realizes other than Pavlik, he doesnt have another great fighter in his stable. Doesnt have another cant miss prospect. Doesnt have another meal ticket.

Now I dont think that Loew thinks that in that lamens terms. I mean, he loves him...there is no doubt about that. But he also knows THAT is where he is making his money. So without Kelly, its back to working at the gym and tarring driveways (Im kidding...but you get my point).

Well, vs Hopkins, Loew and his team were HORRIBLE!

First, they came into the fight with the obsession of KOing Hopkins. All the interviews leading up to it, Kelly kept talking about KOing Bernard...Jack said he stays up at night "dreaming of KOing Bernard Hopkins" (remember all the experts looks on their faces during the 24/7 when told about Team Pavlik's assertion that they were going to stop Bernard...I think Lampley said it best "Noone stops Bernard Hopkins").

Because of this obsession, their entire training camp process (from the footage I have seen) was geared toward maximizing Kelly's strength and power...which ended up zapping his stamina in the process. Im not a pro trainer, but even I know its a VERY bad idea stamina wise that if you are going from 160 to 170, you do not build as much weight as possible and cut down by fight night (remember, because of this strategy also, Kelly was outweighed by 10lbs on fight night). The only reason you would do something like that is if you truely believed it was going to be a quick fight...because if not, your fighter is going to be ZAPPED by the later rounds (or even early as we saw in this fight).

Also, because they felt a KO was a forgone conclusion, they failed to come in with any semblance of a plan B. And on top of that, they didnt even have a good plan A either. DOUBLE THE JAB!! DOUBLE THE JAB!! Thats the only corner advice I heard all night.

And lastly, at about the ninth round, someone in Kelly's corner said the words "Dont worry, even if you lose, your still the MW champ!". WTF!!! I wanted to throw my remote at the tv hearing that bull****.

Anyway, Loew knows if he loses Kelly, he loses everything. He also knows that he was one of the main reasons Kelly lost to Bernard (I rank the corner third behind Pavlik's angle issues and his inability to get off if not set). BUT, he also knows that Kelly was sick and hurt...and that Kelly listens to everything he says like its gospel.

I hope it isnt true...but Loew could be the main reason the health issue is the main issue in every interview.

 

Good analysis, kelly got shooled and if his team are in denial about that then he may have a lot of long nights ahead of him.

 

Who said hit low?

 

Yes, he will use the 2-1.

 

Gee -- it could be the main issue because it was the main issueatsch

All the health issues were kept under wraps until the Thomas Hauser article came out, and if you haven't read it, you probably ought to stop posting on the subject.

A fighter with 101 degree fever the day before the fight has no business in the ring. Responsibilty lays with Pavlik, not Leow. Jack Leow, Miguel Diaz, and Mike Pavlik Sr all tried to get Kelly to post pone the fight. Instead Kelly somehow convinced them to stay quiet and even to lie to Bob Arum.

Jack Leow is a keyplayer in a very stable team. Jack and Kelly have been together since KP was 9 years old. Miguel Diaz has been in Kelly's corner since his first pro fight. Jack raised Kelly from a child to a champion. Coached him through an amature career that ended with a record of 89-9, and multiple national championships. After that he guided him through the ranks and into to two victories over the man who dethroned BHop. It would be assinine to break up a team that has that kind of track record.

 

Agreed. I wouldn't break up that team, but I've always said that Pavlik needs to get an assistant trainer to help him out.

 

If I was the one making the decisions, I'd have Diaz spend more time with KP during training camp. He's more experienced than Leow, and I think he is more observant over all. I'd also make damn sure that Jack understands that he needs to grow as a trainer just as much as Kelly needs to grow as a fighter.

The thing about the Hopkins fight is that the illness and injury probably did not cause the loss. BHop's extraordianry performance caused the loss. However, the illness and injury DID cause KP to look like ****.

 

Once again, I agree with you my duke.

But anyways, the only thing Pavlik is gonna show is in this fight is how to kill a fighter who doesn't belong in the ring with you.

 

Hopkins is really hard style to beat. I havent seen Rubio fight but im rooting for KP, I think he's lost to Bhop will make him a much more dangerous fighter in the ring. KO win for KP.

 

Of course, KP is gonna come in this fighter more determined. Anything less than a KO is unnacceptable.

 

No he wont because he can't. He is what he is and nothing more. He's not gonna turn into Bernard Hopkins all of a sudden. He's not gonna be up on his toes circling sticking the jab. He's gonna come foward and throw hard punches. That's all. He is what he is.

 

I do believe that Pavlik is the real-deal, but slick-boxers will always give him a problem. He can't adapt like a Lennox Lewis or Joe Calzaghe, but he has a Gatti-like will.