Will the winner of GGG vs Jacobs be the lineal champ?

Who's the Lineal Middleweight Champion?

 

Nobody it's vacant you idiot

 

No it not. You're delusional and are in denial. Canelo Alvarez is without a doubt the Undisputed Lineal Middleweight Champion.

 

The rules are thus:

If you leave the division you forfeit any claim to the lineal championship of said division

And cucknelo left the division ok dopey

 

Those are YOUR rules, not THE rules. You only forfeit your claim to the Lineal Championship if you leave a division never to return. What you are referring to is when a fighter moves UP to the next weight class because he has out grown the weight class he is Lineal Champion in.

That's not the case with Canelo. He was just entering MW for the first time (at a catchweight) when he became Lineal MW Champion vs Cotto. So Canelo returning to 154 for a single fight to capture the WBO Title doesn't affect his status as Lineal Champion at Middleweight. He certainly hasn't forfeited the Lineal Title, he has emphatically declared his desire to fight Golovkin and more recently has made his intentions of campaigning at Middleweight crystal clear. These actions solidify his Lineal Championship status beyond any doubt.

 

This post is pure rubbish

Those are THE rules not my rules it dosen't matter if he intends to return he left the division and by doing so forfeited the divisions lineal title it dosen't matter if you believe otherwise your opinion is irrelevant THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS HE IS NO LONGER THE LINEAL CHAMPION GET THAT THROUGH YOUR VERY THICK SKULL

 

Are you crazy? Entering MW for the first time? You are aware he had been in the MW division for 3 fights prior to the Cotto fight? How can you say that with a straight face in spite of all the information available?

Let me get this straight....so as long as one says they have "Intention to return", they can claim champion of the division above even if they aren't fighting in that division, and willingly gave up their only belt in that division, and better yet,. fought for another belt in a seperate division.

Ok...so Canelo can stay at 154 for another 5 years if he wants, but as long as he "Claims to return to MW", he's recognized until that actual return. Is that an alternative fact or something?

 

People put too much emphasis on lineage.

As long as Canelo claims to be the MW champion, he'll always be the MW champion because he beat the man who beat the man who.......beat Hopkins.

The problem isn't the lineal claim of Canelo and his antics, the problem is the prestige the press bestow upon the other trinkets.

For a few years now Golovkin has been able to call himself champion, as have a handful of other men.

Imagine a world where no one could claim to be a champion unless they first beat Canelo. I'm sure we'd either have seen Golovkin concede to every demand and fight Canelo or we'd see him leave the division behind and go for championship glory in the SMW division.

But obviously the world isn't ideal and there are other ways to get media recognition because there's so many belts going around which means people can take alternative routes to title claims, ultimately meaning these two don't have to face each other.

So to answer the question, the winner of this fight will be seen as the number 1 but they can't take the lineal claim until Canelo loses or vacates it himself.

 

While I agree with virtually you whole post, wouldn't Canelo's vacating is MW belt that he won, be in fact his admission to vacating the linear title? Adding to the fact that he moved to 154, and fought and won a belt there in the meantime.

 

He gave up his WBC belt but he didn't give up the ring title and he didn't make any statements about not being champ any more.

Other champions have won belts in other divisions before returning as well.

Ultimately Golovkin will gain another title and will improve his resume and ranking but he can't be the man who traced back to Hopkins unless he beats a man who traced back to Hopkins.

 

Just goes to show what a mockery Canelo has made the MW title/division with his obvious avoidance of 3G.

I personally don't consider the Ring a real title, as much as is it an award. If they are to act as a title, there has to be proper stipulations applied.

I can't think of another fighter who won a world title (not just a mere belt), moved to another division, while claiming to be the world champ of the division they are no longer in. I know that happens, especially with well established stars, who can get away with that behavior, since the ABC will LOVE high sanctioning fees.

Do we need to hear the words from Canelo saying "I am no long the MW champ", or do we allow his actions to make the distinction for him, as they clearly have IMO.

It's a crappy situation we are in right now, that's for certain.

 

It's a complete mockery, I agree.

I don't care about the ring at all, but if Canelo was giving up his championship claim he'd have given up all of his title claims.

Mayweather did it recently at WW. There's loads of examples through history of it.

His actions would be distinct if he said something like "my future is at SMW".

Totally crappy. All these bs politics and diva antics just give people an excuse not to fight the best fighters. It's really frustrating.

 

Yes I am aware that he had been in MW technically for 3 fights prior to the Cotto fight. He had fought there because he was unable to secure a rematch with Floyd Mayweather who had captured his 154-lb title. Further, Floyd Mayweather had been holding those 154-lb titles hostage having dropped back down to 147 without reliniquishing his 154-lb titles. So Canelo fought at 1 lb above JMW because there were no title opportunities at that time. During those 3 fights prior to Cotto, he was still ranked as a Jr Middleweight (#1) and generally still considered a Jr Middleweight. He didn't become ranked at Middleweight until he beat Cotto for the MW Title.

So that’s why I said he was entering MW for the first time when he fought Cotto, because up until then he was ranked as a Jr MW. The larger point regarding that was about how he was just entering MW, meaning, as opposed to outgrowing a division (not being able to make weight) that you are Lineal Champion in, Canelo was fighting just 1 lb over JMW. I was explaining one of the reasons to start a new lineage was if a Lineal Champion out grew a division and moved up a division because he wasn’t capable of making that weight limit any more. That isn’t the case with Canelo because he is more than capable of making the Middleweight limit, so there would be no grounds to start a new lineage.

I think you’re exaggerating here, but basically what you’re saying is true. Though I think it was clear that Canelo was outgrowing Jr Middleweight and a permanent move to Middleweight would occur in the not too distant future. If Canelo stayed at 154 for another 5 years, it’s unclear how long he would remain Lineal Champion at Middleweight. It would depend on a lot of factors, like how many champions there are at Middleweight. I think he could have defended that WBO Title one time at 154, maybe even twice, if he was clear about his intentions to move up to Middleweight after that. But 5 years? I don’t think Canelo would be able to make Jr Middleweight for that long, but if he did stay at 154 and didn’t show any desire to fight Golovkin or move up to Middleweight, then there could be grounds to start a new lineage.

It’s really a hypothetical situation though because we know that’s not going to happen. Alvarez has already confirmed his move up to MW by taking on Chavez above MW, so it’s really a moot point. The reason why there isn’t a clear answer about your question about staying at 154 for 5 years is because it is not typical for a Lineal Champ to win the title at a catchweight, then move down 1 lb to re-capture a title at the weight class below. It’s not something that happens often, but we do know he’s Lineal Champ and as long as he intends on fighting Golovkin in September, there’s no way the winner of GG Jacobs would establish a new lineage. There have been times where there was no Lineal Champion for a period of time, like in Heavyweight for 5 years after Lennox Lewis retired. It’s possible that if Canelo stayed at 154 and didn’t fight in MW for 5 years, something like that will happen.

What makes the Lineal Title at Middleweight so special is how many consecutive years there has been a clear Lineal Champion.

Before Canelo was Cotto, before Cotto was Martinez, before Martinez was Pavlik, before Pavlik was Taylor, before Taylor was Hopkins. To break the consecutive streak of Lineal Champions at Middleweight and establish a new lineage when you have a Lineal Champion ready and willing to compete at MW and defend his title would be blasphemy.

 

I'll just say that it's not a crappy situation. It's an unusual situation, but not crappy. We are on the verge of possibly the biggest MW fight in years. And we have two great fights before that happens to prepare us for it.

We have Canelo Alvarez and Gennady Golovkin on a collision course for a Mega Fight. One the Lineal Champ and One the Decorated Champ. This is a good time to be a fan of boxing. From Canelo's perspective, the fact that he's both the Lineal MW Champ and the WBO Light Middleweight Champ at the same time is an incredible accomplishment, and really it's a great position to be in.

I think this is a great time to be a boxing fan, there are some big fights at Middleweight on the horizon, and if things continue in this direction, this could be the best year for Middleweight boxing in a long time.

 

Canelo only fought at 155 because he could not secure a Floyd rematch? C'mon Shadow, that's a terrible attempt to rationalize the 155 fights. There was no reason at all to fight Angulo, Lara, and Kirkland at 155, when his actual division was a mere pound south away.

The 5 years was just a 'for instance'. How long are you going to be fine with Canelo not facing a top MW, while claiming the MW World championship? We know his next fight is at SprMW and his last fight at JrMW. And yet.....this is acceptable?

You mention the lineage is what makes the title special. How about actually defending it. To me, that's special. And I don't mean defending it against a cash-worthy fighters over a more deserving opponent. I think we all know the Khan defense was nothing more than a cash grab (Followed by a belt grab at 154...)