Will there be a 160 pound man in the next 3 decades who could beat Ali head to head?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jun 17, 2022.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  2. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why are we using a 230 pound 34 year woefully out of shape Ali as an analogue for him at anything closely near prime? It reminds me of the Leonard hater on this board uses the Leonard of the Norris fight as an analogue for the best of Sugar Ray.
     
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  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    By whom?
     
  4. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joe Frazier had a skill set to match his body type and made the most out of it.
     
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I've seen Langford mentioned before as one of the guys who makes Johnson a top heavyweight pre-Burns, and Langford gets listed on his hit-list in greatness discussions. Also, it gets discussed when people are evaluating Johnson vs the other top black fighters, Langford vs Johnson for the title in hypotheticals, etc. I don't remember a specific post in a specific thread, but that's my recollection of Langford's appearances in the Johnson Wars. Not everybody agreed, though.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: this statement may be redundant.
     
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  7. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why are we using Joe Frazier and Kenny Norton as analogues for 160 pound fighters? Thank you in advance.
     
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  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    In retrospect, the phrase "Johnson Wars" may also have given a hint.
     
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  9. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There's an inevitable limit to what modern training and technique can achieve and it's more likely this 170 pound athlete becomes 200 pounds with no loss of speed or reflex time. The 140 pound athlete becomes the 170 pound one.
     
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  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Possibly, although modern training doesn't necessarily bulk you up. This also gets into unsettled, "Here Be Dragons" discussions about what natural size means.

    I see no reason in theory that sports science will lack the voodoo to transform 160 pound Hagler into 160 pound Super Hagler. It can already improve a guy's abilities without increasing weight.
     
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  11. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Water rises to its level or reversion to the mean.
     
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Could you elaborate, please?
     
  13. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sure. Each generation is larger than the one that preceded it but there are limits.
     
  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Sure. There are ultimately biological limits on how large a human body can get under current conditions, and I agree that physics also puts limits on the human body. Although the biological ones can be manipulated to a degree technologically, even currently. And I don't know that Ali (for example) represents the absolute limit that the laws of physics impose on a boxer of that size.
     
  15. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here's the youtube. He's owning Ellis. Notice the size difference. Jimmy was 189 pounds, not 160. And to those who say it was all reflexes with Ali go to the 1.20 mark and see the beautiful shoulder rolls. That was the fight when the great Harry Wiley, trainer of Sugar Ray Robinson, was in his corner because Angelo Dundee was in Jimmy's because he was contractually obligated to him.

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    And to avoid charges of cherry picking here's the whole fight:

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    Last edited: May 24, 2023