Will Usyk vs Joshua be for the vacant lineal belt?

A new lineage has to be established.

If Usyk wins easy by shut out/dominant performance + late KO, then there is an argument that Usyk is "The Man" at the weight, but if say AJ gets a 1 punch KO that doesn't erase the question marks over him

 

Holmes-Ali was for the LINEAL title.

NONE of you guys seem to understand what that means.

With you guys, it's all about trying to figure out HOW TO TAKE TITLES AWAY from fighters OUTSIDE the ring, which is the opposite of what the lineal title is.

"Strip him if he hasn't fought in a year. If he tells a writer he's retired but he changes his mind, too damn bad."

That's not how the lineal title works.

Ring Magazine hasn't always recognized Lineal champs at the time. They've done a better job than anyone else. But they screw up. (And lately they've been doing it more often than not.)

Ring magazine CHANGED its rules in the early 2000s saying if a fighter announced his retirement they would no longer recognize him (WHICH WAS NOT A RULE BEFORE) ... and they also changed their rules saying a #1 could fight a #3 contender to restart the Lineal title (WHICH ALSO WASN'T a rule before).

That's when they started to screw up more than they had ever before.

They were bashed INTENSELY FOR THAT ... because they hadn't done that for the first 80 years or so of their existence.

And they quickly did both.

They named the winner of Vitali-Sanders the champ, when Sanders wasn't the #2 contender. And they removed their recognition of Vitali when he retired for a few years after the Danny Williams bout and didn't recognize him as such when he returned.

They named him when they probably shouldn't have. And they refused to recognize him when he returned and gave it to his brother for fighting ... wait for it ... another #3 contender.

All they had to do was wait until Vitali or Wlad fought the highest rated contender. Which Wlad did near the end of his reign.

They were wrong then. There are far too many articles to list saying just that from back then. And they're wrong now. That's why I said they are becoming like another alphabet org.

And this Fury thing has gotten ridiculous. How many RING belts is he going to win without actually losing in the ring? At some point Fury is going to have more Ring belts than WBC AZTECA belts.

You win and lose the Lineal title in the ring.

 

You have ZERO idea what we're talking about.

 

The old lineage hasn't gone anywhere. He's still in the gym and just defended the world title three months ago.

 

You can't VACATE if Lineal title if you're still fighting.

Tyson Fury was trying to make a Chisora title fight last week, and he's been in the gym training all this week.

Nobody, not even you, thinks he's retired.

You lose the lineal title in the ring.

This Saturday, Ring magazine will have handed out more RING belts to heavyweights this century than the WBC handed out WBC heavyweight belts. And only ONE Ring champ this century actually lost his title in a fight ... when that's THE ONLY PLACE you're supposed to lose the Lineal title.

That's how convulated the Ring has gotten with their "rules."

Just add them to the alphabet orgs at this point.

 

The TBRB is a bigger joke than Ring. I used to post with Cliff Rold on various boxing boards. He was one of the people outraged when Ring decided to recognize Vitali as champ for fighting Sanders (the #3 contender). He was one of the biggest proponents of lineal champs.

Because, if I remember correctly, the #2 Ring contender at that time was Chris Byrd, who had actually already beaten Vitali. Which is why people went bat**** crazy at the time (except for HBO, which pushed for it and was the only entity giving Ring any props at the time).

Now, his TBRB removes fighters from their ratings ... even if they are in training for fights that are signed and scheduled ... if THEY THINK it's been too long since their last bout.

I think they dropped Wilder from their heavyweight ratings a month before his fight with Fury last year, even though they knew the fight was on and going to happen, because it had been too long since his last fight. (But his last fight was with Fury, and he wasn't removed from the ratings.) And then they added Wilder right back once the fight took place.

That's not common sense. That's making arbitrary rules and following them whether they make any sense or not.

These guys who contribute to Ring and TBRB rankings so desperately want to feel like they have some control over boxing. They start acting corrupted, make up rules, drop fighters for not following them, even when money isn't involved. Imagine how corrupt they'd be if they actually got a cut of the purses?

Just stay out of the way and let the fighters settle matters.

 

This whole conversation is on the proviso that the guy has retired. We all know that's bull **** but Fury can't keep holding up the whole of the sport and ruining other careers. He's got to **** or get off the toilet

 

*Vacant lineal title. Ali wasn't the defending champion against Holmes, he wasn't the defending champion against Frazier.

 

What a stupid, stupid post.

Lewis didn't lose it, he retired it.
Vitali didn't lose it, he retired it.
Wladimir lost it to Fury.
Fury didn't lose it, he retired it.
Fury can won it, defended it and then retired it.

 

The winner of the 20 August bout between the universally recognized top 2 world heavyweight challengers - Oleksandr Oleksandrovych Usyk and Anthony Oluwafemi Olaseni Joshua - will be the NEW Lineal & The Ring World Heavyweight Champion. Period.



People can spit or swallow it. I don't care if the unemployed oaf dosser has got a secret flight out and clambers into the ring to challenge the winner. Or if Rocky Marciano comes back from the dead.

 

Again, you don't know what a lineal title is. You can't Vacate a lineal title if you're still fighting. What part of that did you miss?

Lewis didn't fight again. Wlad lost it.

Vitali never should've been considered one to begin with because he didn't fight the second-rated heavyweight to restart it ... the second rated heavyweight (Byrd) had actually already beaten him and he didn't want to fight Byrd again ... Vitali fought the third-rated heavyweight. But Ring changed its rules so Vitali wouldn't have to face the guy who beat him (which is what an alphabet org would do).

You're citing mistakes the Ring made. (They've made a lot of them this century and appear to be ready to screw up yet again.)

What's easy about following the lineal title is it doesn't matter what stupid rule whatever group of men in which era decide to put in place, or which group of nerds wants to strip which fighter for whatever reason ...

If you beat the lineal champ, you're the lineal champ until someone beats you or you don't fight anymore.

Tunney didn't fight anymore. Marciano didn't fight anymore. Lewis didn't fight anymore. Out of the last 130 years of boxing ... those are the only blips.

All the other lineal champs beat the lineal champ before him.

And Fury is the lineal champ and he hasn't lost. When he does, we'll have a new lineal champ.

You don't have to put any more thought into it than that.

Fury is the champ until he loses. When he loses, that guy will be the lineal champ.

Because he sure as hell is going to fight again.

 

Not lineal. Just Ring. Ring has screwed up before. They screw up more and more these days. That's happens when people who have no involvement and no real power over fighters try to control the situation. They make a mess of things.

 

Holding up the whole sport? Fury's fought twice since Usyk and Joshua last fought.

He just beat his mandatory. He's one of the most active heavyweights in the sport right now.

Who is he holding up? The only challenger in the WBC top 10 who doesn't seem to have a fight scheduled is basically Dillian Whyte, who Fury just knocked out.

Wilder, Joyce, Parker, Ortiz, Ruiz, Helenius, Makhmudov ... all have fights scheduled. Who is he holding up? The long-suffering Frank Sanchez? Give me a break.

Who is Fury holding up exactly? Whose career is he ruining?

 

Did Marciano or Tunney, among others lose their lineal championships in the ring?

 

So it's your position that you can only become lineal champ if you beat the number 2, whilst rated number 1? So I guess Robinson vs Bell wasn't a championship fight to you was it not?

I guess you see James Jeffries as the defending champion vs Jack Johnson do you?

I guess you see Joe Louis as defending champion vs Ezzard Charles do you?

I guess you count Tyson Fury as having 8 defences of his lineal claim now do you?

What you are absolutely failing to grasp with this, is there's no body officiating over lineage, its a construct designed by fans to cut through the bs due to sanctioning bodies not playing fair.

Luckily for us, in this case its cut and dry. Fury has retired, and that's the case whether you like it or not. Sure he might come back from retirement at some point, but he's made his stance quite clear.