Willard (Johnson fight) vs. Jeffries (Corbett 1)

"Reno is a mountain town at roughly 4000 ft with low humidity and beautiful weather."

Elevation is actually 4,506 feet.

Which brings up an issue. Elevation, if one is not used to it, can sap stamina. It varies with the person. Apparently you lose about 3% of useful oxygen with each 1000 ft of elevation. Your body adjusts by creating more red blood cells over time, but for some it takes weeks. The fight between Jeff and Johnson was switched to Reno on relatively short notice. This might also help explain Jeff's performance. Of course, it was the same for both men, but different bodies react differently to elevation. Thanks for bringing up the elevation thing.

"You are questioning the experts and journalists who gave this information"

Well, who are they? Where did the 100 F and 100% humidity come from? Just because it has become conventional wisdom doesn't mean it is beyond questioning. The film is the one thing we know is real and it shows what it shows. What looking at the weather facts about Havana shows is that this would be a very freakish April 5. It would even be freakish in July and August to an extent.

Reno has "beautiful weather"

I thought so when I lived there. But you're preaching to the choir to an extent. I question that Reno was that super hot on July 4, 1910 either. The 100 plus stuff is probably exaggeration in my opinion. What the film shows is that it was hot enough so that most preferred to be in shirtsleeves. Not unusual for July 4 in Reno. What the Havana film shows is that most of the crowd felt comfortable wearing their suit coats.

 

I am aware of these details.......I have been in Niger in over 100 degree heat with locals wearing suits, full french dresses and winter coats does this mean the temp gauge was wrong? Or could this be normal there?

 

I am not buying into anything. I have no idea what the damage really was. What I posted was what Willard said in 1964 he felt the damage was.

Nothing has to be explained about Willard and Dempsey. Willard was old and fat and went down with the first punch. He proved nothing much except the bell rang at seven.

While it is without doubt that Willard was old and fat in 1919, it does not follow that the Willard of 1915 somehow would handle Dempsey. That is just a leap into the dark.

 

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"winter coats"

in 100 F heat? Okay.

But the crowd in Havana was mainly American, wasn't it? So they wore coats in Havana but not in Reno? And this also doesn't deal with a 100 F day being way out of line for April 5 in Havana.

And what is the primary source for the temp gauge on April 5, 1915 in Havana?

 

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But by your standards Willard didn't handle quite a few men who were not real heavyweights. Dempsey at 187 slaughtered him. Smith at 180 and McMahon at 175 defeated him.

But actually anyone over 175 was considered a heavyweight.

Jeff like every other heavyweight champion was the champion of an unlimited division. If the best men were on the smaller side, well, that is the same as Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano, etc. Willard being one of the bigger guys doesn't make him one of the better guys and no one back in the day thought so.

 

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This thread is truly ridiculous. No historian worth his salt would choose Willard widely known as knowing nothing about the finer aspects of boxing to do anything but get mauled vs Jeffries.

Jeffries was rated as a top ten hwt champion into the late 70's. Willard has never reached that level of historic presence.

 

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The morning of the Havana fight was described as overcast, which may have accounted for some of the crowd opting to wear jackets, the sun came out just before the fight.Source .A Pollack.

 

Dempsey fought plenty of big men ,hence the title Jack The Giant Killer.Fulton,Willard,Sharkey,Brennan ,Morris and Firpo for example. Tunney fought Heeney ,Madden ,Herman,Risko all heavier. Who did Jeffries fight who was even his equal in weight? Not his fault, but a fact that you are attempting to fudge by making comparisons that don't work.

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/willard-vs-johnson-rare-post-fight-footage.586572/page-5

LOL. I found this. Its a first hand account taken the day of the fight:

"Heavy clouds were hanging low and many wore overcoats as protection against the chill wind when time was finally called at twenty-three minutes after 1 o'clock, or 1:53 New York time. Johnsons weight was announced as 227 pounds, although he looked heavier, and it was whispered that the real poundage was some fifteen pounds more. Willard's weight was 238 pounds, the announcer said."

The above quote from Klompton, pretty much settled this issue the last time we started arguing over the temperature for this fight (imo).

 

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Okay. But they could have taken their coats off when it got hot. That is what I do.

I live in a very hot town. Actually hotter during the summer in temperature than Havana. And 80 F is a world away from 100 F or above which is common here. 80 F seems pleasant, but I'm certain it wouldn't feel that way to someone who has to go 26 rounds in a boxing match.