Willard (Johnson fight) vs. Jeffries (Corbett 1)

The best guess is a temp about 80 F and possibly up a couple of degrees, and humidity about 65%. This might seem very hot and humid to heavyweights going 26 rounds. No doubt about that. But also no doubt that it is far short of "103 and rising" as one of the film narrators states.

Thanks for posting that. Seems this issue has been raised before and strong evidence presented. I either was never aware of, or had forgotten (not unlikely at my age) that thread. So thanks again. I noticed Klompton made the same observations off the film that I did.

*I also would be similarly skeptical of 100 plus degree claims for Johnson-Jeffries and Dempsey-Willard, but as these fights were in July, such temperatures are much more plausible.

 

Thanks for posting this. I actually wasn't aware of this evidence (if I had ever read the thread, I had forgotten it), but was just asking questions off the film and the quick research I did on the climate of Havana in April.

 

I have always felt that the statistical measure of a puncher is his KO's versus his total fights. A guy losing decisions doesn't make him a bigger puncher, nor does a man winning decisions make him a lesser puncher.

only KO's in total fights cut it for me.

 

Well, did Willard not lose to Bearcat McMahon and Gunboat Smith and did they not weigh 175 and 180. What is the issue. Jeff did not lose to men that light.

Yes Dempsey beat some big men--Willard, Morris, Fulton, Firpo--who were bigger than anyone Jeffries defeated, but he lost to smaller men than Jeff ever lost to, and actually struggled more with the little guys. Two of those you named, Sharkey and Brennan, were not all that tall or heavy, and were actually smaller than Ruhlin. I don't know why you listed them.

Tunney? Tunney was himself a light heavy through most of his career, but he certainly wasn't noted for fighting and defeating big men, whatever else is said of him. Risko was 5' 11" and 192. Madden 5' 11" and 186. Heeney 5' 11" and either 201 or 204 depending on the source. I believe only Heeney was actually over 200 lbs. I don't think Tunney ever fought a man who was at least 6 feet tall and weighed 200 lbs. Jeff didn't fight a lot of big men, but some were bigger than that, like Ruhlin.

If your argument is Tunney's opponents would be small if matched with Jeffries, so what? We are just going back to criticizing Jeff for being big.

 

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"At noon the heavy clouds began breaking up and the sun shone through patches of blue sky.
At 12.40 the sun was shining brightly.At 1,10 the hot sun began beating down on everyone."
Adam Pollack." Jack Johnson The Reign".

 

"Jeffries is going to fight different than usual"

Why isn't the Ruhlin fight usual for Jeffries? That is how I would expect him to fight. I would think he would have no choice anyway but to carry the fight to Willard. Even the skilled boxer Johnson had no choice. I think Jeff might circle a bit like Dempsey did (I have not seen him do it in the limited fight film we have, but off his filmed sparring session with Choynski, he appears to have been capable of moving about), but like Dempsey he would come in eventually.

As for what happens when Jeff gets in close, who knows? These sort of things are all guesswork. But Willard losing to folks like Gunboat Smith and Bearcat McMahon certainly opens the door to his not being all that fierce inside.

Johnson was old and fat, but I disagree that punch is the last to go. I think skill is the last to go, which is why skilled old men like Archie Moore could last so long. Johnson was this type. Jeff seems to have been more of a come forward mauler. Not surprisingly, an aged version after a long layoff might not have had much left to contest such a top fighter as Johnson.

Much is being made in this thread about Jeff in 1910. I think both the Johnson and Willard of 1915 beat that Jeffries. The Jeff of 1900 would be, I think, a very different kettle of fish.

Just my thinking, but we are debating guesswork, not historical facts.

As for the weather, the description posted by Klompton seems to be of an unseasonably cool ("cold wind" is used) day, at least until the sun came out. I am sure it seemed hot to fighters going 26 rounds. But my major point would be that Jeffries going 25 rounds under arc lights might actually be the more impressive feat of enduring oppressively hot conditions.

 

Excellent analysis McVey.

 

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