Willard vs Johnson. 35 + Min. Several rounds shown

Mendoza · Feb 4, 2015

klompton2 said: ↑

How can anyone pretend that Jack Johnson wasnt utterly dominant to the point of literally toying with Jeffries, Flynn, Burns, and Ketchel? Its simply bizarre. Its not even a debateable point and yet Mendoza wants to try to debate it. Its nuts.
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Where did I say Johnson did not dominate a short journeyman in Flynn, and a blown up middle weight in Ketchel? Its clear Burns was over matched as well. Let's set the record straight.

I would pick just about every notable heavyweight champion post Johnson to dust these three in far less rounds than it took Johnson to beat them. We are talking about blown up middles ( Burns and Ketchell ) and very short Flynn ( just a 69" reach ) who was has more losses than wins in his career, and was knocked out ELEVEN TIMES before getting a title shot by Johnson!

The knockdown on Ketchel had on Johnson in my view is legit, and its clear that Kethcel who was badly out matched and landed little did produce a big mark on Johnson's face.

You're on your own when you say Moran did not win a round.

In a separate thread, I posted Johnson's own book on the first 10 rounds with Jeffries, and there is some film to view, which you will see a slow and evenly fought type of match up prior to round 11 .

Having said that I did enjoy what you added to this thread on Johnson vs. Willard.

mcvey · Feb 4, 2015

Mendoza said: ↑

Where did I say Johnson did not dominate a short journeyman in Flynn, and a blown up middle weight in Ketchel? Its clear Burns was over matched as well. Let's set the record straight.

I would pick just about every notable heavyweight champion post Johnson to dust these three in far less rounds than it took Johnson to beat them. We are talking about blown up middles ( Burns and Ketchell ) and very short Flynn ( just a 69" reach ) who was has more losses than wins in his career, and was knocked out ELEVEN TIMES before getting a title shot by Johnson!

The knockdown on Ketchel had on Johnson in my view is legit, and its clear that Kethcel who was badly out matched and landed little did produce a big mark on Johnson's face.

You're on your own when you say Moran did not win a round.

In a separate thread, I posted Johnson's own book on the first 10 rounds with Jeffries, and there is some film to view, which you will see a slow and evenly fought type of match up prior to round 11 .

Having said that I did enjoy what you added to this thread on Johnson vs. Willard.
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69" reach? An inch more than Marciano's then. Flynn was stopped 7 times before he fought Johnson and 3 of them were tko's.

On the subject of Flynn Burns weighed 170lbs for him just two more than he did when he defended against Johnson.
Did he have jaundice then too?

As you have been told several times ,Johnson did not write that book, but you press on with your agenda .Who gives a s** t?

Frankel · Feb 4, 2015

klompton2 said: ↑

I have what I believe to be the longest version in existence of this fight. The most common film of this fight runs about 45 minutes. Oddly this version of the film has several editing mistakes, for example the round shown as round 25 is actually round 22. The three versions all have different pre fight footage edited out from the original theatrical long version. This pre-fight footage runs a little over 21 minutes. Of the fight we have rounds 1, 2, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26. In the common version there is very little post fight footage. This shows scenes in the ring immediately after the fight and a little bit of the audience. This runs about 2 mins. The long version has about five minutes worth of post fight footage. This now shows the footage of scenes in the ring after the fight including an extended segment, then Willard leaving Cuba on a steamship, crowds greeting Willard in the United States at various whistle stops, Willard shaking hands with Bob Fitzsimmons in Washington D.C., and finally Willard "showing the hands that brought back the title." All in all the long version runs about 1 hour and 14 minutes.

Johnson tries really hard and often looks like an angry terrier going after Willard and smacking him around. He lands some really hard punches. If you watch the film you can see Johnson slowly weakening over time and by the 26th round his knees are really sagging, hes sweating a lot, and he just looks really tired and a little unsteady. Earlier in the round Willard shook Johnson up with a powerful right to the body and had been trying to set up the one-two intermittently throughout the fight but couldnt land it. With Johnson tiring Willard threw a jab and a right which backed Johnson into a corner and with nowhere left to go Willard threw the exact same combo and this time the right landed with full impact perfectly at the end of Willard's full extension. Johnson collapsed and he was out. Johnson was just out cold from a great punch which landed because Johnson was too old and tired by the 26th round. He had fought a tremendous fight and would have won on points had the fight ended in a decision. Its interesting because against Willard the one asset that Johnson had utilized so effectively for so long was basically turned inside out against him. Johnson always fought as the bigger, stronger fighter, using his strength and size to tie guys up and fight at whatever pace he wanted. Against Willard its obvious that Willard is the stronger fighter and this clinching, physical style of fighting which Johnson had cultivated over the past seven years now worked against him and served to tire him out. Being the smaller man he was also forced to take the fight to Willard, which we arent accustomed to seeing and which Johnson likely hadnt been forced to do in years. Its great fun to watch because Johnson really shows how good he was but it obviously contributed to tiring him out.

This film is really illustrative for both guys. For Johnson it shows how clever he was in mapping out an effective strategy to deal with a guy who was as big and strong as Willard with such a reach. It also shows that he could fight when he really wanted or had to rather than that lazy style he relied on in so many fights. He is also a deadly accurate puncher. Its interesting because he rarely misses. He doesnt throw a punch, or a flurry, unless its going to land (I always kind of like that style). Willard is a different story. Willard seems to gain confidence over the course of the fight and even seems to improve in technique. He shows a lot of heart and determination, hes also big and strong, and has underrated power. He relaxes as the fight progresses and starts to use his size more effectively. That being said, his defense is porous at best. He tries at times to parry punches or catch them similar to Johnson but most often he simply takes punches and relies on his size and strength to absorb the punishment until he can tie his man up. Its easy to say that he was really made to order for Dempsey because he was essentially a catcher. Hes not terribly mobile and his wide stance inhibits quick movements. When you combine this with his poor training and conditioning for the Dempsey fight its easy to see why it was such a slaughter. Even in his prime I think Willard would have been made to order for Dempsey.
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Great post Klomp.. i did send you this fight only around 2yrs ago for you to identify some other fights on that dvd, which you kindly did. many thanks

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Willard vs Johnson. 35 + Min. Several rounds shown

Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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Willard vs Johnson. 35 + Min. Several rounds shown

Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

mcvey VIP Member Full Member

Frankel Active Member Full Member