Willard's worth as a champion?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jan 24, 2013.


  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Cleveland fought even more dangerous opposition in Ali and liston.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Hard to say. Williard vs Langford or Jeanette in 1915 or 1916 would be very close. I do think Wills would defeat Willard from 1916 on.

    By the way, Willard didn't dominate Moran, he was only the better in a 10 round match.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I think with hindsight most of us on here would favour wills and maybe Jeannette over Willard but at the time noone else did.

    Is it fair to class Willard as anything other than the best from 1915-1919? He stopped the legendary jack Johnson and entered the ring against Dempsey as a strong favourite with some fearing for jack's life. Rewriting history is a bit dangerous and misrepresentative
     
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Supposedly 'public sentiment was opposed to it'

    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F5081FFE3D5A11738DDDA80994DD405B888DF1D3

     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Such a vague reasoning.

    Even if the black dynamite didn't have recognition back then or public demands as they were aging, Fulton did stop the current coloured champion.

    I'd have fought that would be ideal since there was a white champ and a white standout contender. Two exciting fighters both with ko power and huge frames.

    How could anyone have been against it?
     
  6. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    It is vague but I'd imagine if it wasn't a 'duck' that it was to do with the lowly image of boxing at that time. Boxing was outlawed in several US States and remember this is the era of Prohibition, with the popularity of Puritan Christianity, where certain behaviours were considered immoral and ungodly
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah but Willard did make the fight with Dempsey didnt he.

    I'm not sure this is his fault though as I never seen anything hinting at duck or uncrowned champ etc.

    When Dempsey went Hollywood after saying he'd never fight Wills it's easy to call that a duck as he made the choice himself. Wills beat Fulton and Firpo and was undoubtedly the top man throughout but Demosey continually ran from him. Doesn't seem the same scenario here with Willard and Fulton.

    What's your gut instinct on it?
     
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm undecided, Willard didn't seem too keen to fight anyone really, he was happy putting on exhibitions and being paid handsomely for it. Which is common sense really

    The media seem to have become more critical and interested in the sport in Dempsey's reign though from what I read. Dempsey was hounded to fight Wills, Willard wasn't hounded to fight anyone
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Did Willard change the goalposts though?
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Willard was a consensus easy winner despite fighting with a fracture in his right hand from the 3 round on.. Most papers gave him nearly all 10 rounds.
    THAT IS A DOMINATION.

    "Willard won the newspaper decision. (Washington Post)
    Tex Rickard's debut as a New York promoter. This match was originally scheduled for New Orleans, but the promotion fell apart over personal differences, and the fact that promoter Tommy Burns had doubts the public would buy a 10 round No Decision title fight. Willard explained his failure to kayo Moran by saying he had broken all the bones in his right hand in the third round, but Dr. Lewis Morris examined the champion after the bout and said Willard had a slight fracture of the joint of his right index finger. Most papers gave Willard almost every round. Gate receipts were announced at $151,254. Willard received his guaranteed $47,500, Moran $23,750. Willard was said to have signed a contract with a circus worth $150,000. Both wore seven ounce glo"


    Ringside report below, it gives Moran only the 3rd ,[the round Willard sustained his injury,] and credits him with drawing the 8th & 9th.

    Winning one round out of ten is a domination ,as has been stated

    Typical misinformation from Mendozy.:patsch

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...=NZTR19160415.2.58.3&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0--
     
  12. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The Moran victory impressed everyone who saw it from what I read.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    • "Fulton was known as a Rochester plasterer by trade.
    • Trivia: In early 1924, according to newspaper wire reports, Fulton vowed to never again fight during the months of June, July and August, because he had realized that the few losses of his career had occurred during summer. He then racked up a string of losses in the following non-summer months.
    • Knocked down Heavyweight Champ Jess Willard in an exhibition match on May 14, 1915 in Rochester, MN.
    • Fulton was rejected as a challenger by Champion Jess Willard throughout 1917 despite a string of victories, but was generally regarded as the Number One contender by most experts of the day.
    • In March of 1918 it was widely reported that Fulton's manager had got Willard to agree to defend his title against his man, so a proposed bout with Jack Dempsey had been called off. Confirmations and denials flew back and forth for weeks. Then, on March 25 a report out of Chicago announced that Willard and Fulton had indeed come to terms thanks to Colonel J. C. Miller. Willard was to receive 75 percent of the net profits and Fulton was to be paid a flat fee of $20,000, with the bout to be staged on July 4th at "...an as yet to be determined site." In April it was said the match would take place in the Twin Cities. However, on May 14th it was announced by Col. Miller that the bout was called off due to growing political pressure against boxing in that state.
    • January of 1918 he was sued for assault by his own brother after punching him in the face during an argument over money. The year before Fulton had been charged with assault for throwing a young woman into the water after a heated argument.
    • Died in Park Rapids, Minnesota.
    • 2003: The Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers
    • See also, Cyber Boxing Zone's Fulton page.
    • Was naturally left-handed and fought from both orthodox and southpaw stances avidly throughout his career.
    Official Measurements: Height: 6' 6 1/2" Reach: 84 1/2" Chest Normal: 45" Chest Expanded: 48" Neck: 18 1/4" Waist: 35" Calf: 15 1/2" Ankle: 12" Biceps: 14" Wrist: 8 1/2" Weight: 218 lbs. "
    http://www.***********.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525207
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Every article you dig up refers to Fulton as the leading contender/outstanding challenger to Willard.

    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10B1FFC3E5C1B728DDDAD0894DA405B878DF1D3