willie pastrano v nino valdes circa 1955-59'

so who wins this one?

Willie pastrano was in the ring heavyweight rankings from 1955 until 1958 and nino valdes was in the heavyweight rankings from 1953 until 1958 so this fight could have happened.
　
During his spell as a rated heavyweight Pastranos wins against name heavyweights include out pointing the following: joey maxim, rex layne, charley norkus, john Holman, willlie besmanoff, dick Richardson, Brian London, Joe Bygraves and former European champ Franco cavicchi. During the years he was a rated HW contender pastrano was also outpointed by Roy Harris, Alonzo Johnson, Joe Erskine and stopped by Brian London on a cut eye. Against name and rated heavyweights willie went 2-0 in 1955, 1-0 in 1956, 3-1 in 1957, 3-1 in 1958, 0-2 in 1959.

During the same period that pastrano was rated in the world top ten valdes beat name fighters like don cockell, dick Richardson, Erskine, john Holman, wayne bethea, johnny summerlin, mike dejohn and brian London but lost to archie moore, bob Satterfield, bob baker, eddie machen, zorra folley, alex miteff and alonzo Johnson who all outpointed valdes whilst Charlie powel, eddie machen and a young sonnyListon also knocked nino out.
Against name and rated fighters Nino valdes went 1-3 in 1955, 1-3 in 1956, 2-0 in 1957, 4-1 in 1958 and 1-3 in 1959

Ninos career was over in 1959 and his last win as a rated fighter was posibly mid 1958.

After 1959 Pastrano would later record wins over fringe heavyweights of note like alonzo Johnson and tom McNeely but would concentrate more on the LH division.

any thoughts?

 

it could be quite close. I would like to ask alonzo johnson and john holman who they think would win.

both pastrano and valdes lost to alonzo johnson and both beat john holman around the same time.

the charley powell loss in 1959' is worse than any loss pastrano ever had.

 

valdes was being outworked by brian london when he cut him. Brian was in no trouble at all until the stoppage. I have that fight on VHS.

Obviously prime valdes was a genuine title threat for a time, around 1954, but a better version of nino who lost to powell was schooled by harold johnson -who pastrano later outpointed.

I think pastrano has the edge in 58' and valdes-pastrano is pretty even from 1955-57.

 

valdes went 1-3 against name fighters in 1955. I agree he would beat alonzo around that time because he was a step down from the guys who beat him that year.

Even pastrano beat alonzo in a 1960 rematch.

 

Especially when you think how faded valdes had become by 1959.

I think willie eventualy worked out he had to work too hard fighting bigger fighters. It worked well for him at age 20-21 when he had youth speed but by age 25 in 1960 he was almost a vetran of 60-70 pro fights. a decision was made to give away less weight.

before that point he beat a good class of HW. Pastrano was never knocked down as a HW.willie beat some big heavyweights, holman was around valdes size. johnny arther was 228, he handled 6.4' dick richardson so for a spell the big guys did not bother willie.

 

harold johnson beat a prime nino valdes. I see no reason why Pastrano at his best against post 1955 valdes could not match harold johnsons earlier result against valdes. If a better LH can outspeed prime valdes then it is not outrageous to asume a slightly less eficient but by no means slower LH cannot repeat this against a more worn valdes.

 

when charles lost to valdes it was still a close fight. It was a one off. charles made a mistake. ezzard was a bit heavy and had decided to go for a quick win and tired himself out, nino was reportedly saved by the bell in round 2, ezzard put too much into the first four rounds and game nino was able to maul his way back into it when ezzard could not finish the job. It was a blunder that cost charles because he had not prepared for a long fight. valdes never rematched charles who was never as heavy again. Charles improved his form shortly after with better wins over satterfeild and walace than valdes ever recorded..

Nino was still a genuine contender, He genuinly beat a great fighter one time but he never recorded anything close to it again. I dont think pastrano would train for a quick win. willie's not going to take the fight to big nino looking for a quick win like chaeles did because he was not a puncher. nor would angelo dundee let him. I think pastrano would chose to box like harold johnson, bob satterfeild and alonzo johnson all did against nino.

I dont think pastrano was inferior to charley powell.