willie pastrano v nino valdes circa 1955-59'

exactly right. Nino being such a big physical rough guy was always dangerous even when he was old. I don't attack him because I don't respect him he was a tough old handful. I just feel that the guys people given no chance against him deserve defending.:good

Harris looked bad against Liston but so did a lot of guys. Liston was the real monster here. If you couldn't get off first and find a foothold immediately against him it was over no matter who you were. Liston would wipe anyone out if the other guy could get his mojo focused in that first second. Liston was expert at smelling when a guy was not quite out of the blocks. Like Tyson, if he got on top first he stayed on top. A lot of fighters are better than the one round they last.

Agree. Powell was enormously impressive a great athlete who played football at a good level throughout his boxing career. He took weight off when boxing because he was naturally even bigger. Beating nino was a good win. Big explosive guys anything could happen. I think Powell always went for it too, when you roll the dice like that there's proberbly no shame in losing to great fighters and he fought a lot of good ones.

Like I say losing in one round often shows that one guy won before the other guy got going. That's not to take a thing away from the winner because he accomplished what he set out to do. Winning easy and its not easy to win easy!

 

Liston was always going to beat Harris of course he was. He could have been 1000% ready and Liston would beat him another way. Harris was better than Howard King who went 8 rounds with the best version of Sonny even though he had already been knocked out in one round three times before. Sometimes if Liston did not get that fast start he needed more rounds. What's wrong with that?

So although Liston was always going to win, It helped that Sonny got off to a great start too.

 

Nino Valdes was a big game rough handfull. Tough and hard punching.

But so were Charlie Powell, John Holman, Mike dejohn, D1ck Richardson and Cleveland Williams similarly big, rough and tough. Above these big sluggers was Sonny Liston who was league's above this group in terms of talent and reliability at top level.

Nino Valdes was no Sonny Liston and neither were dejohn, Powell,Holman and Richardson. You could put that group together against each other and they were as likely to lose to smaller guys as big guys. Liston was the one bigger guy who beat all comers, among the big guys he was the one that stood out.

 

Yes right after he lost to Bob baker, Billy Gillium, Archie Moore and Harold Johnson Nino found the form to beat a guy better than all four of them in little Cuba.

I like Nino. Game and rough. always came to fight. but I think you are kidding yourself awfully if you believe Charles was as well prepared for an unknown Cuban loser as he was for the undisputed World Heavyweight Champion. On paper Valdes was nobody back then. Charles could never have expected as tough a fight as he got. Ezzard was hoodwinked during a working holiday to Miami. No rematch either.

Soon after Charles flattened Bob Satterfeild right after Satterfeild beat the pants off a prime Bob Baker (one of the recent guys who schooled Valdes). Straight after Charles told the press and went on record saying:


"all I want is a title shot. I'll fight anyone to get it Nino Valdes, Dan Bucceroni, Roland Lastarza. You name him I'll fight him"

Notice how he mentioned Valdes first? Rather telling wasn't it?

Ask yourself this. Bob Baker outpoints Valdes then Satterfeild knocks Baker out in one round. then Charles knocks Satterfeild out in two rounds.

Consider After losing to Valdes Charles dispatched a guy in two rounds who in one round flattened the guy who schooled Nino Valdes.

Billy Gillium beat Valdes and lost badly to Charles in his next fight.

I don't doubt Valdes deserved to beat Charles on that hot night in Miami but there is a lot of evidence Charles was a lot better either side of that evening.

 

You are forgetting Bob Baker and Billy Gillium who were also the same sized guys that you like. Baker was the most skilled of any of them.

I'm not so sure Valdes, DeJohn, Baker and Williams were so far ahead of the other big guys like Powell, R1chardson, Gillium, and Holman. For instance Powell beat the pants off Valdes. Gillium beat Carter. Richardson beat Baker. These bigger guys were rather erratic.

Getting back to Richardson not being big he was taller and heavier than Mike DeJohn. And with a 51% KO record his power worked better against Mildenburger than Bonavenas did.

 

Richardson won the second fight around the time DeJohn beat Baker too. Richardson and Dejohn was a close match up. D1ck beat Mildenburger too.

And yet Big D1ck so discouraged Williams that the voices in his head forced a "no show" from the big Cat on the evening of their rematch.