Willie pastrano vs Ron Lyle and earnie shavers

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jun 27, 2015.


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  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Hard to say given how inconsistent Lyle and Shavers could be. Ron never stopped a ranked contender unless Shavers was ranked at the time he stopped him, and I think that's questionable. Earnie lost to men like Bob Stallings and drew with a 12-4-1 Jimmy Young who some felt he lost to. As mentioned, Pastrano was only stopped twice in 80 pro fights, with one of them coming controversially and the other at the end of his career. He was also tricky to try and outmaneuver. I admit I don't know that much about Willie Pastrano, but the data presented combined with what I DO know about Lyle and Shavers makes this a hard one for me to place any bets on.
     
    mr. magoo, Jun 29, 2015
    mr. magoo, Jun 29, 2015
    #16
  2. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    -He was RING #4 just a year and two loses to leading contenders before facing Pastrano. So I don't think there is any magic distinction between Pastrano, Baker, and Machen beating the same man in a 12 month span with no reported variables.

    -Does it really matter? It's hard for a Non-Champion to get fights with leading contenders at their peak rating. He beat men who were either recently rated top 5 or would be rated top 5 within 12 months in Holman, McCurty, Layne.

    -And Pastrano was a high ranking HW in the late 50s.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 29, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 29, 2015
    #17
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Show me where layne was rated in the top 5 within 12 months of fighting Pastrano?

    Valdes was rated number 2 within 12 months of fighting liston. But was unrated when they fought. Does this enhance the victory?

    Pastrano did face a top 5 rated heavyweights at the time of the fight...roy Harris. Harris won a unanimous decision . In my opinion harris would be lucky to see the 5th round against shavers or Lyle.

    John Holman was the worst of the rated big men of the era. Against. Other big fighters big cat williams valdes and baker, he went 0-3. There is a ton of film on him. Powerful Puncher but no skills. He was easy to outbox.

    Here's one report of his style

    "Holman the slow motion Chicagoan who throws a good punch but has difficulty making it land on a good boxer"
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=8Q8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3945,4682491&hl=en

    McMurty- there is film of him. He is mediocre. Slow of hand and foot, limited skills. valdes and Machen blasted him in one round. The valdes loss looked like a man against a boy

    Layne- anyone who knows about layne knows he was never the same after the marciano and charles beatings. He was damaged goods by 1953, and by 55 when Pastrano fought him he was a walking corpse. This victory means little.


    Layne McMurty holman decent wins for he era, but in the scope of things not good wins when comparing to a prime version of Lyle and shavers. Lyle and shavers would have disposed of those 3 easily
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 29, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 29, 2015
    #18
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Ok but how did he do against other high ranking HWs of the late 50s?

    The names Pastrano beat are Green.
    The names Pastrano lost to are Red
    Pastrano won and lost too: Blue


    1955

    Rocky Marciano, Champion

    Archie Moore
    Bob Baker
    Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
    This content is protected

    Willie Pastrano
    Nino Valdes
    Johnny Summerlin
    Bob Satterfield
    Young Jack Johnson
    Ezzard Charles

    1956
    Floyd Patterson, Champion

    Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
    Archie Moore
    Harold Carter
    Willie Pastrano
    Eddie Machen
    Bob Satterfield
    Ingemar Johansson
    Bob Baker
    Zora Folley
    Wayne Bethea

    1957

    Floyd Patterson, Champion

    Eddie Machen
    Zora Folley
    Willie Pastrano
    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    Nino Valdes
    Mike DeJohn
    Wayne Bethea
    Alex Miteff
    Ingemar Johansson

    1958

    Floyd Patterson, Champion

    Ingemar Johansson
    Nino Valdes
    Zora Folley
    Henry Cooper
    Willie Pastrano
    Archie Moore
    Eddie Machen
    This content is protected

    Sonny Liston
    Mike DeJohn

    1959

    Ingemar Johansson, Champion

    Zora Folley
    Floyd Patterson
    Sonny Liston
    Henry Cooper
    Eddie Machen
    Billy Hunter
    This content is protected
    [/COLOR]
    Mike DeJohn
    This content is protected

    Alex Miteff
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 29, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 29, 2015
    #19
  5. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree to a degree but I think if Willie was in shape he could take Ron full route thing is his power was not necessarily enough to keep the opponent at bay but these guys were slow and could be outpointed but a tight rope indeed
     
    Bummy Davis, Jun 29, 2015
    Bummy Davis, Jun 29, 2015
    #20
  6. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    My mistake, he was 7.

    Yes. Because the ratings shuffled so quickly than. Ratings atent the end all, anyway.

    Holman did beat Satterfield who did a number on Baker and Valdes, so not that black and white.

    Mcmurty was a great Valdes win, maybe his best post 55.

    Layne still has good performances that kept him onthe radar...LaStarza, Charles 2, and the Baker trilogy he may have deserved a nod in.

    Shavers and Lyle are lacking in big wins over rated fighters themselves. Shavers has Norton who matched poorly, and Lyles best may be over Shavers.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 29, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 29, 2015
    #21
  7. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Who are the highly rated awkward boxer/movers that Lyle and Shavers beat?
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 29, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 29, 2015
    #22
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