Willie Pep is he the 'Greatest Pure Boxer' Of all time?

Well you first have to really define the pure boxer term.

I'd say Pep is definitely among the most accomplished fighters to be lumped into that category(which is not at all the same as best defensive fighter imo, despite the two often being interchangeably used).

If you could take get a decent consensus agreement for fighters to include in this category, make them all the same size and have them all fight each other an equal amount of times, would he come out on top?.I thnk that's far too hard to guess at.

Some might say someone like Tommy Hearns is the toughest to outbox so should be considered the best pure boxer.And he didn't even have any real need for defence against 90 % of fighters.

 

Larry Holmes is up there.

 

Harold Johnson
Willie Pep

Jim Driscoll
B.Leonard

 

I always have a nightmare trying to get people to define the term 'pure boxer' on this board. Thanks for bringing up the issue. Some people seem to think it means a guy who doesn't get caught up on the inside and keeps things purely at distance. However in a technical sense in terms of the wording, for me boxing is defined (as GPater said) as hitting without being hit, therefore wouldn't it mean anyone who is effectively great at doing so regardless of style? Any takers?

 

He very well might be. Definitely one of the contenders. You've got to consider the likes of Benny Leonard and Muhammad Ali (for some insane reason people don't want to recognise that one). Pernell Whittaker as well. But maybe Pep is.

 

Others in the running
would include ,
Driscoll
Whitaker
Loughran
Gans
Conn
Delaney
Locche?
Canto
Attell
B Leonard
Pep probably takes it imo.

 

Please take the question mark away from Locche's name. Now we have established a definition of the topic term, he clearly ticks all boxers imo.

 

You have established,your criteria ,but that isnt necessarily mine.
[I like to tick my own boxes]:good

 

To qualify as a" PURE" boxer , I think a fighter needs to possess
Great footwork
Judgement of distance
Anticipation
Great head movement
Handspeed
Inventiveness
Reflexes
The ability to relax under pressure
Variety of punches
Thats some of what I would look for
Thats why Ali and Jones Jnr do not make my list ,though they were extraordinarily effective at applying their own singular skills, well at least, until time eroded their reflexes.

Joe Louis was a very effective boxer,coming forward .rather like Arguello both had very correct precision like punches ,both had slow feet .
Louis had little head movement so he doesnt tick all the boxes.
Locche had marvellous head movement but did the same things over and over again, he could be troubled if he met a swarmer,he was a rythmn fighter,you have to break those guys up ,not let them get into their comfort zone otherwise they will embarrass you.[ I fought a bloke named Price, years before you were born ,he was built like a stick insect,I came out like Dempsey I was going to go through him,like Germany through Poland , he jabbed my face off for 3 rounds ,I hid away for a week! ]
Saddler managed it with a slightly past his best Pep ,Sandy used his strength and power to nullify Pep's skills.
Whitaker doesnt get the kudos he deserves ,partly because his style was not "fan friendly" the average fight fan would sooner see a Gatti type guy in there,also "The Pea " was a surly little **** who didnt come over well to the general public ,but the guy was a great boxer.
Loughran and Delaney were master boxers ,and because Loughran had bad hands he lacked what Delaney had, a ko punch.
Some one said Harold Johnson , great defensive fighter ,but a counter puncher ,who fed off you.Pastrano danced away and jabbed ,giving Harold nothing to "eat",and though the decision might have been close,it was Willie who came away with the title.
Canto was a lovely little boxer.
I was a fan of Buddy MGirt,not up with the very pinnacle of great fighters but he incorporated a lot of Walcott's stuff in his repertoire.
How good was Gans? I have him at no 2 Lightweight possibly I am way off the mark , we dont really know.
Young Griffo was considered untouchable , eras before Locche was hatched.
We dont know.
Driscoll looks spendid on film to me
My idea of a complete fighter would be someone like Eder Jofre,Ricardo Lopez, Jose Napoles ,SRR but thats not what you want here.
I'm rambling, time to go ,just one NB,notice I didn't include Jack Johnson in my list?

 

Good topic and beside Willie Pep it was good to hear some other names
such as Eder Jofre and even Jose Napoles. When Jose was champion, I thought
that he was one of the real greats in slick ring movements - as they once said
he was smooth as butter.

Others have wisely hit the punchline: Hitting and not getting hit!

 

If thats your criteria Ali ,and JonesJnr fit the bill:good