Willie Pep vs. Manny Pacquao, prime vs. prime?

That's not true Rob. You always seem to want to make that case. There's such thing as an opponent making a fighter look good, and that definitely applies here. Pacquiao could get by with anything he wanted against such a slow, limited fighter in Diaz, which made him look more spectacular than against the likes of quicker, more skilled fighters like Marquez, Morales, etc.

 

Ive gotta agree with Pea there Robbi..I think that is really stretching it when you put that fight in context.

Diaz was made to look average and slow quite simply because he was.

 

Robbi, you know your stuff no doubt, but I had some trouble with this post. The basics of slipping, ducking, countering, the left hook to the body, the jab, ect. were easy to follow examples for many boxing students I've known, watching films of Pep, as he did them with such fluid ease. I can't see that Marquez was in a higher class then Pep in any of the basic techniques, but maybe I misunderstood you.

 

Oh for sure, we can hammer out page after page about how fighters from 50 years apart go against each other but we don't dare take on such a monster as the 12 vs 15 round scenario. Decades of time, the new weigh in phenomenon, average to poor footage, it all pales to the goliath that is the 3 round difference.

:hey

 

It's true with Mosley, lightweight compared to welterweight. And many others agree with me. See if you can get the Holiday fight on youtube when it's his first title fight at the weight and then watch him against the likes of Rivera and De La Hoya. I'm even giving you extra leeway with it being his early lightweight days. Mosley's weight problems at lightweight effected his speed. Fast as a lightweight, blazing when he jumped to welterweight.

The above was the only previous case.

I totally understand that Diaz being as good as a 'punching bag' made Pacquaio look better than he did against Marquez. But I'm not talking about the difference in Pacquaio's ability to land power punches on a regular basis, which makes him look more impressive and explosive. It's how quick his hands were at getting there. I honestly believe that Pacquaio's hands against Diaz were as quick as I've ever seen them. Seriously. Even quicker than say, the third Morales fight.

 

Pep was one of those very few ATGs who was indeed a technician but who took it to another level. He transcended technique and became a great artist. This is what you don't understand. Marquez, the technician, has his feet on the ground. Pep had that and wings.

 

Cyrano couldn't have punctuated it better, S

---------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP6AwknmjkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_HOWlGD6o

 

Stonehands. What you don't understand is that Marquez is a better picture for presenting the basic fundementals of boxing. I'll give ground slightly regarding Pep when I said "he's not in Marquez's class" when it comes to technique. If Pep doesn't have his feet on the ground, then that to a certain degree, defeats the purpose of your arguement when it comes to technique. Pep was a peppering scoring puncher, who at times sat down on his shots within range. And he was also inclined to being unorthodox when being innovative, which hampers him a lot when it comes to flawless technique. Pep was clearly more elasticated in his motions and slipped punches with easier than Marquez. But when it comes to technique regarding throwing punches, consistently having his hands up, and getting them back into position, Marquez gets my vote.

Pep was streets ahead of someone like Ali, but not quite as good as Marquez.

Your reply never surprised me as you seek conflict when it comes disagreements on the sport.

 

Look no further.

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

Stonehands. Just to let you know I meant 'punching' technique, nothing else. I perhaps should have mentioned this. Maybe you still disagree. Other techniques like footwork and defensive moves weren't on my mind whatsoever. I do apoligise if I wasn't specific. The hands and arms are the main physical weapons in the sport.

 

Stonehands, very well said on Pep! Robbi again, you know your stuff, but though Pep didn't have a big punch I can't find anyone who threw the jab, left hood to the body, right hand over the jab, etc. more technique wise correct then Willy. I wouldn't have a problem with saying Marquez was every bit his equal though in that regard.

 

While were on Pep I have to say I was dissapointed to discover that Don Rileys account of the Pep-Graves no punches thrown 3rd round is doubtful based on the other St. Paul Presses writer at the time account of the same round. I read Riles column for many years here in Minnesota and found him my favorite boxing scribe, more so then even the old charges in the Ring mag. of old. Riles is old and retired now but I still hope to talk with him and have him clear up his version vs the other scribe.

 

The clips shown of Marquez are simply to show his technique while punching, nothing else. I'm not trying to make a point that his punches had better ending effects, aka powerful, than Pep's with the clips above. Not by any means.

I think the contrasting styles of both makes things grainy. If they were similar in style the comparison would be easier.

 

pac would hardly be able to hit pep and would out box him

 

Take Pep in this one.....

 

He lacks a world class chin! You cannot away from the fact he has been KO'd as a pro, so that is always going to be an issue when fighting someone who can bang.

So like I stated it is not an issue IMO in this scenario, but technical issues are.