Willie Pep - would his fans please justify his placement in their top all time lists

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007.


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  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Kessler's a great fighter to, but what does that have to do with Willie Pep not being an all time great himself. That's sort of like saying that just because Lennox Lewis was a great fighter that Muhammad Ali wasn't.

    Sorry, but I don't follow your logic
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    #16
  2. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ok Pep-fans, please list me Willie's 10 finest opponents
     
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    #17
  3. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am not saying Pep isn't a great fighter, just that this stuff about him being amongst the top ten of all time make little sense, he is closer to the Kessler level than he is to SRR level
     
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    #18
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm not going to list everyone Pep's fought, but do you not consider Sandy Saddler to be a great fighter, because he's on just about every historians top featherweight list
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    McGrain, Jul 16, 2007
    McGrain, Jul 16, 2007
    #20
  6. Sizzle

    Sizzle Active Member Full Member

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    It's really simple.

    1/ Anyone that understands boxing will be able to appreciate his skillset in the ring - His fluidity, his footwork, his crisp combinations on the inside and outside, not to mention his incredible, innovative defense, and his guts which often goes overlooked. But beyond this,

    He was the featherweight World Champion in 1942 at AGE 20 - That in its own, is an incredible achievement. One of the youngest linear world champions ever.

    Up until 1948, he was the best featherweight in the world, with only ONE SLIPUP in over 100 bouts, and he won back his title before the years end.

    THIS IS WHAT WE CALL DOMINANCE. THE MAIN YARDSTICK BY WHICH WE MEASURE GREATNESS. Willie Pep was one of the most dominant featherweights ever.

    In 1949 he defeated his kryptonite Sandy Saddler, despite having been in a near-fatal plane crash and never being quite the same - Nevertheless, he still managed to get himself back to the top of the division so the Ring recognized him as the No.1 featherweight.

    Up until 1953, he was still considered one of the best featherweights in the world, in this year being ranked the No.1 contender by The Ring.

    He retired with 229 wins in 241 bouts. Very respectable.

    Before his crash he was 135-1-1.
     
    Sizzle, Jul 16, 2007
    Sizzle, Jul 16, 2007
    #21
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    SRR??? Are you referring to Sugar Ray Robinson? Just for the record, he wasn't a featherweight dude.
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    #22
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Didn't he win Golden Gloves at feather? Not at all sure of this by the way.
     
    McGrain, Jul 16, 2007
    McGrain, Jul 16, 2007
    #23
  9. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    he happened to beat Willie in the amateurs...
     
    Nemesis, Jul 16, 2007
    Nemesis, Jul 16, 2007
    #24
  10. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    2 or 3 times
     
    Nemesis, Jul 16, 2007
    Nemesis, Jul 16, 2007
    #25
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't what he did in the amateurs, but as a career pro, he mainly did most of his work at welterweight and middleweight.
     
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2007
    #26
  12. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Outclassed him from what I've heard
     
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    #27
  13. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Can one of the Pep-perts list his top 10 opponents please, it isn't a huge number, but will help me immensely in corralating my arguments
     
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    China_hand_Joe, Jul 16, 2007
    #28
  14. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here's 8 fighters better than Beyer and Mundine:

    Sandy Saddler
    Manuel Ortiz
    Chalky Wright
    Willie Joyce
    Paddy Demarco
    Ray Famechon
    Sal Bartolo
    Jackie Graves
     
    sweet_scientist, Jul 16, 2007
    sweet_scientist, Jul 16, 2007
    #29
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's no small task conisdering the number of guys he fought. If you like I could list some of the good fighters tha he fought?

    In the meantime, why don't you make a list of the fighters that Pep avoided. Unless your argument does not centre around the fact that Pep failed to completely dominate his era?

    Also, i'd love an answer to my question about your view of Pep on film.

    EDIT: Won't bother making the list Sweet Scientist has done lovely one. You could maybe still make the list of guys he avoided and tell me what you think of him on film?
     
    McGrain, Jul 16, 2007
    McGrain, Jul 16, 2007
    #30
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