Wills Firpo Report States Wills Has No Chance With Dempsey

No. He wasn't that type of fellow as far as I could see.

 

Yeah, but finding a promoter whether it was in Cuba or France wouldn't have been much of a problem.

Even Rickard spoke of a specially constructed outdoor arena on the occasions the fight was mooted in the United States.

Of course, it is possible that promoters wouldn't have wanted to stage this huge contest and make a million dollars, but it doesn't seem likely.

 

Yeah, the biggest money was definitely in America.

If Dempsey wanted to fight Wills and make money he could have gone to another country.

Up to a quarter of a million people were wedged into Wembley for the 1923 FA cup.

 

Yeah, they were.

I'm not saying Dempsey even should have prioritised Wills. Nor am I saying that he was a coward for not doing so. What i'm saying is that the option existed. If a fighter wants to prove himself the very best of his era, he has to beat the other best fighters of his era. If there is another outstanding fighter in his era, he has to fight that other outstanding fighter to prove that he is better. Dempsey didn't do this, and given that Wills arguably bested superior men, I believe this leaves the question in doubt.

My point in this thread has been, there's no point in blaming it all on New York. Dempsey was an adult alpha-male millionaire superstar. There was likely very little he couldn't have made happen if that had been his desire - like Mayweather and Pacquiao now, he had the power. He wasn't beholden to New York any more than he was beholden to Rickard or Kearns. Jesus, the bellboy that testified against Rickard in that unfortunate **** case wasn't even beholden.

If Dempsey wanted Wills - if he wanted to prove he was unquestionably the best HW of his time - he could have done so, almost unquestionably. That he didn't means different things to different people, and that's fair enough, but let's not have any confusion.

 

Yes. He was connected to Fitzsimmons (not the famous one) on more than one occasion where a Greb fight is concerned.

Even if he were (and I don't think he was) he can fight Wills. The conversation might have gone something like this (excuse me for not attempting to recreate how they actually spoke or whatever, with all apologies to Cross_Trainer).

JD: I want Wills next.

TR: I don't think it's going to fly in New York.

JD: OK, let's do it elsewhere.

TR: ...Chicago, maybe...

JD: Don't maybe me. Take it to Cuba if you have to.

TR: There isn't the same money in Cuba.

JD: I don't give a **** about the money. There are guys out there who think Wills is better than me. I can't have that. I won't have that. Also, i'm worried about geeks in the future thinking i'm not as good as him and talking about it on some sort of free-to-air wireless. You fix this fight Tex. I'm not going to tell you again.

DK: Jack, we can make more money fighin' Firpo again right here, what do you wanna go to Cuba for, there's no dames!*

JD: You listen to me you little *****. You been eating for free for to long. There's gonna be another fight. The fight is gonna be Wills. I don't want anyone else. I won't fight anyone else. Get me Wills. Get me him if I have to only add 150,00 to my enormous fortune, rather than the 400,000 i'm used to. Because I want to prove i'm the best. That's important too. It's important to make money. But it's not everything.

DK: ...OK Jack.



*token gesture

At the end of the day, as the man once said, this is smoke-filled coffee-house crap, do you know what I mean? I love it, you love it, but it's nonsense. All these guys, and their fans, Pacquiao, Mayweather, trying to put it off on management and each other. You're young, you're bad, you're a millionaire, you're the best at what you do, you're the ultimate alpha male, but you can't get it done because the bad man in the suit won't let you? In many ways, nah, in all ways, this is even more pathetic than being downright outright scared. Fortunately, no is it true. We just allow the wool to be pulled over our eyes far to often.

 

Kid Gavilan.

I only meant the original question, the one where I ask you what you think of Dempsey going abroad to fight Wills. You didn't answer it, you just provided a litany of excuses as to why it didn't happen and tried to draw what I consider to be non-existent parallels with Sugar and Louis.

Actually, I think it was grossly unfair that Burley didn't get a shot at Robinson, title or otherwise, but I don't think you can say that Robinson ducked his #1 contender, even if you say he ducked Burley.

None. I consider that Kid Gavilan was on a par with Charley Burley and many would consider him Burley's superior though.

With all due respect, this is total bull****. Wills was basically Dempsey's #1 contender for the best part of seven years. Burley never fought in the welterweight division after Robinson came to the title, and was retired before Robinson lifted the middleweight crown.

It is you, I am afraid, who is trying to engineer a parallel where none exists for reasons of desire and argument.

I doubt he would have "kicked the tar" out of Kid Gavilan, although I might just favour him by the slenderest of margins.

Here's another number: 156. That's the closest Burley got to WW during Robinson's tenure as champion. Robinson denied a pretty big MW a title shot. It was a number of years since Zivic had run Burley out of the division, and there's little proof he could have made it back without hurting himself, I'm afraid.

No, he doesn't get a pass. His failure to fight Burley has actually been one of the more controversial ommissions in my time on the board, and has been debated fiercely.

Dempsey gets it tighter, yes, for reasons that are documented.

None of these guys were ever the best around. Louis consistently matched the best around. These guys were good, but apart from Ray, who was very briefly at #1 before being eliminated I believe, none were ever a part of the equation.

Louis almost always matched his #1 contender, then beat up soft white guys on his day off.

Dempsey never met his #1 contender.

See the difference?

All the while. It is the longest and most consistent "duck" of any #1 contender in all of the history of boxing.